Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3226 Post by tenia » Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:52 am

EddieLarkin wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:45 am
I guess they're really skimping on QC? Surely the most basic check any label should be doing when releasing a disc that has earlier editions is to compare them, or at least compare to screengrabs if discs cannot be sourced.
It's a bit more complicated at times, and it's hard to know if the label skipped QC, chose to keep the technical claim because of marketing over complaints, or chose to trust the right holders' technical claim despite A/B comparisons clearly showing they shouldn't have.

In the case, for instance, of Five Graves to Cairo with MoC, it seems like Universal insisted that what they gave Eureka was a 4K something master. The issue to me is more with people at Eureka seemingly thinking this could have been the case while the master they were given looks like a battered 20 years old one and nothing like anything more recent, let alone done in 4K (or at least scanned in 4K), but this means however that people at Eureka DID check to some extent what they were given.

It's hard to know if this has been the case for Alfredo Garcia at Kino, but in any case, I'd deem the best thing would at least be to drop the technical claim if you're unsure of what you're getting, but on the other hand, how many people will realise this isn't a new 4K master ? I've seen people raving about what turned out to be a SD-upscale, so it's clearly not as if most consumers were acutely aware of these things.

However, true enough, right holders' materials are to be checked and compared no matter what because you just can't trust them 100%. Whether for Eureka then or Kino now, a simple A/B comparison allows to know if you've indeed been given a new master or something that reaaaaaally looks like this older master and not really like this new one. I've been however told that indeed, not every label does such comparisons, sadly...
EddieLarkin wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:45 am
Same thing happened to Indicator with the Sinbad film, though in that instance there was only the one master previously released and so they had no reason to think they wouldn't receive that superior one.
I'm quite certain their workflow is now smooth enough that such an issue would be corrected before the discs are pressed and not after like it was for Sinbad.
andyli wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:49 am
MoC failed to deliver the promised 4K transfer of Five Graves to Cairo, and in that instance it was Kino who kept their end of the bargain.
Kino delivered on this one because they were the one doing the 4K remaster, ie masters of what they were doing. Eureka was however in a technical licensee position, ie dependant on what they were given. However, when placed in the same situation of being dependant of what they're given, Kino seems to have a much looser QC.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3227 Post by EddieLarkin » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:27 pm

Kino's not-surprising-to-anyone-response:
No, our master is from the 2017 4K scan MGM received from Arrow. MGM did some additional work including some color correction. Our master is better than any version previously released, the reviewer, even says "it looks excellent." Unfortunately, we're dealing with a reviewer who's been wrong dozens of times before and the not so unexpected overreaction by fans who have not even seen the disc for themselves.
Now, I can't blame them for not trusting Gary's caps (he presented their release of Fellini's Casanova with the completely wrong black levels, making it look awful and far worse than the competition, even though in reality it is easily the best disc out there), but in this case, his caps clearly are the Kino disc since they show a unique subtitling file that neither of the old TT discs or the Arrow disc shares.

So it seems that even when the truth is staring them right in the face, they simply won't accept it and actually go look at their own fucking disc. Presumably they did have the Arrow master, MGM have done some additional work to it, but then somewhere along the way the old file got used.

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Maltic
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3228 Post by Maltic » Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:08 pm

Kino twitter
COMING SOON!
BRAND NEW 2K MASTER!

VERA CRUZ (1954)

Good, the old Blu-ray from MGM wasn't so spectacular.

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The Elegant Dandy Fop
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3229 Post by The Elegant Dandy Fop » Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:12 pm

I’ve owned the MGM Blu-ray of it for a decade, but have never watched that copy, so I can’t attest to the quality. I have seen it on 35mm and it’s a tremendous amount of fun. It’s sort of like a proto-spaghetti western with its tongue in cheek humor. Another great one from a great period of Aldrich’s career.

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hearthesilence
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3230 Post by hearthesilence » Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:41 pm

Maltic wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:08 pm
Kino twitter
COMING SOON!
BRAND NEW 2K MASTER!

VERA CRUZ (1954)

Good, the old Blu-ray from MGM wasn't so spectacular.
Wow, great and unexpected news. This movie completely slipped by me until last year, when I was looking for more Gary Cooper films, and I was disappointed that I missed out because the OOP BD was going for a pretty high price despite some fairly disappointing reviews with regards to the PQ.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3231 Post by tenia » Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:38 pm

EddieLarkin wrote:Kino's not-surprising-to-anyone-response.
It's up to a point any one of us could have written it.

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L.A.
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3232 Post by L.A. » Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:17 am

Lights of Old Broadway (Monta Bell, 1925) starring Marion Davies coming in May.

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agnamaracs
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3233 Post by agnamaracs » Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:43 am

Kino wrote:we're dealing with a reviewer who's been wrong dozens of times before and the not so unexpected overreaction by fans who have not even seen the disc for themselves.
Gerald Christie wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:42 am
I just can't put my finger on it, but I kind of feel that they are lacking in a way
Tact?

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stevewhamola
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3234 Post by stevewhamola » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:25 pm

In regards to advertised restoration bait-and-switch debacles, Criterion pulled the exact same thing with their Blu upgrade of The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum and to this day list the incorrect specs without (to my knowledge) addressing the discrepancy.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3235 Post by tenia » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:39 pm

Their website in any case is indeed still advertising it as a new 4k digital restoration.
And for this one, Svet is one of the reviewer who was very happy with it and actually reviewed it as if a new 4k restoration (which it isn't - a mistake on his side all the more surprising that he reviewed the older SC disc).

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dwk
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3236 Post by dwk » Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:07 pm

The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum still mentions a 4K transfer. I assume it was a situation similar to Kino's Kind Hearts and Coronets where StudioCanal said they were getting the 4K transfer but supplied them with the older one. Has anybody bothered to email Criterion about that disc?

As always, mistakes happen, its that Kino is refusing to admit them. Literally all they had to post was something like "We are sorry for the mix up, MGM supplied us with the older master." and offer a refund or an option to exchange the disc for another title (equal or lesser MSRP) to anyone disappointed with the release.
Last edited by dwk on Mon Mar 08, 2021 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3237 Post by tenia » Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:17 pm

In this regard, it can be hard (at least for an outsider's eye like mine) to understand why they shut down so violently the legitimate feedbacks about some of their mistakes / flawed releases but then otherwise put in place in quite a typical manner replacement programs for other flawed releases.

But I seem to recall them basically stating they're just releasing so much stuff they can't thoroughly check everything and then replace every mistake generated by such a workflow.

Regarding Katharina Blum, even the booklet seems to state the tech details of the newer restoration, which makes this even more surprising. I haven't read anyone stating they emailed Criterion about it, I'll do within the next few days.

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captveg
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3238 Post by captveg » Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:41 pm

More OOP based on previously being in the "While Supplies Last" sale and now no longer appearing on the website:

Deceived (1991) (DVD) (BD is also OOP)

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3239 Post by FrauBlucher » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:00 pm

The KL Insider has put a moratorium on everything except release info and sales announcements on the bluray.com forum. He's gotten a little beaten up over there by a few about misrepresenting what kind of restorations have been done to some titles. It's a shame

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3240 Post by domino harvey » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:06 pm

Are we surprised? He packed up his toys and left this forum years ago after not liking even mild pushback

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Maltic
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3241 Post by Maltic » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:22 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:06 pm
Are we surprised? He packed up his toys and left this forum years ago after not liking even mild pushback
Meaning you banned him :wink:

Edit: For the record, I wasn't around at the time. Just came across that conversation a while ago while searching for something else.

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domino harvey
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3242 Post by domino harvey » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:30 pm

Ha I forgot about that, mea culpa! I may have been thinking of Harry Lime, but now I don’t trust my memory!

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3243 Post by FrauBlucher » Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:38 pm

I'm sure Domino's ban happened a few minutes before Mr Insider would've stormed out of the building

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hearthesilence
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3244 Post by hearthesilence » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:09 pm

Does anyone know who Mr Insider may be? Regardless, Kino really ought to get someone else to spread the word.

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swo17
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3245 Post by swo17 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:31 pm

Didn't we determine that it was an open, rotating position, the only qualification for which is the inability to be wrong?

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3246 Post by tenia » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:36 pm


FrauBlucher wrote:The KL Insider has put a moratorium on everything except release info and sales announcements on the bluray.com forum. He's gotten a little beaten up over there by a few about misrepresenting what kind of restorations have been done to some titles. It's a shame
It seems now more and more clearer Alfredo Garcia isn't sourced from the Arrow 4k master but the older TT master, so I guess this explains that, which is some way is the only possibility left when such an appalling choice of communication can only put you in a corner once it's clear you were, as originally suspected, wrong.

To think it'd be so much easier for those representatives if they were just, you know, calm and polite in their communication just like almost every other label...

In the meantime though, blu-ray.com has seemingly expectedly deleted some posts (including some from KLI).

mteller
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3247 Post by mteller » Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:19 pm

The Kino thread on HTF is constantly peppered with reminders from the mods begging people not to ask about possible releases. Kino really needs an "Insider" without such a thin skin. Just ignore the questions if they bother you so damn much.

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Maltic
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3248 Post by Maltic » Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:27 pm

With Insider gone, there's only conjecture.

A man who works for KL just watched Riding Shotgun (De Toth, 1954), one of the better Scott vehicles not directed by Boetticher. He thought it was "really good."

Edit: His dad loves Randolph Scott

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captveg
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3249 Post by captveg » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:00 pm

Years and years of poor tact from the Kino rep(s) never ceases to amaze me. It takes no extra effort to be polite in providing feedback. Even a simple "We believe we received the 4K file from MGM, but we'll reconfirm and return with a response once we do" would be acceptable as a start. But instead they double down in their insistence that no error could have occurred, even though the DVD/BD era of home video has had errors on various titles for 25 years now. With how little companies are willing to pay for quality control these days it's a miracle this doesn't happen even more. It's one of the secondary benefits of streaming for the studios - if something has an error on the file they can just update the server when the correct version is tracked down; if something has a spelling error or a credit error on the description they can just update the text file rather than having to correct printed packaging.

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captveg
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#3250 Post by captveg » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:20 pm

More OOP based on previously being in the "While Supplies Last" sale and now no longer appearing on the website:

Defiance (1980)

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