Criterion and Netflix and Amazon

The scuttlebutt on Criterion, Eclipse, and Janus Films. Lists and polls are STRONGLY discouraged.
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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#76 Post by knives » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:13 pm

I’ve seen all three. Sound of Metal is the only one I strongly like though One Night in Miami is alright. Time is a mess, but topical.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#77 Post by FrauBlucher » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:14 pm

I'm a big fan of Sound of Metal. One of the stronger films of 2020

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domino harvey
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#78 Post by domino harvey » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:15 pm

I wonder why Criterion didn’t go for Amazon’s Les Miserables? That one seemed like a no-brainer, especially given their recent push for more representation in directors

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Pavel
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#79 Post by Pavel » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:20 pm

I think they might have acquired more films but just decided to confirm the 2020 Oscar contenders.

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PfR73
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:07 pm

Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#80 Post by PfR73 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:34 pm

I liked One Night in Miami, didn't care for Sound of Metal, and haven't seen Time; if Criterion's going to be releasing more Amazon Originals, they need to get their priorities straight and release The Report.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#81 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:55 pm

I'll be Eeyore and express irritation about Criterion releasing all these modern accessible films on their slate which takes away from other titles begging for proper treatment- including relatively recent films. The IFC deal is good, and throw in Netflix fine, but when Amazon et al. join the pack, I worry that this'll dilute the output of those films at risk of falling into obscurity. I get the argument of releasing popular titles so that ___ can happen, but this seems to be growing a bit beyond the need.

Mostly I just want Fucking Amal to come out from somebody already

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domino harvey
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#82 Post by domino harvey » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:56 pm

Amazon's already been part of the pack with Cold War a few years back

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PfR73
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#83 Post by PfR73 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:59 pm

I disagree with any argument against a film receiving a physical release. Streaming can shove it where the sun don't shine.

beamish14
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#84 Post by beamish14 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:00 pm

I'm surprised that Netflix pickups like Shirkers and especially The Other Side of the Wind, movies with rich background stories and a need for significant supplemental material, still haven't gotten Criterion discs.

beamish14
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#85 Post by beamish14 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:02 pm

PfR73 wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:59 pm
I disagree with any argument against a film receiving a physical release. Streaming can shove it where the sun don't shine.
I'm with you there. It's the same reason why I visit brick and mortar bookstores and trek to my library every week. I need to have it in my hand.

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Pavel
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#86 Post by Pavel » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:07 pm

I'm fine with streaming, it's quite convenient, but I'm always very pleased when great service exclusive films get a physical release

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yoloswegmaster
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#87 Post by yoloswegmaster » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:11 pm

beamish14 wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:00 pm
I'm surprised that Netflix pickups like Shirkers and especially The Other Side of the Wind, movies with rich background stories and a need for significant supplemental material, still haven't gotten Criterion discs.
I'm pretty sure that Kristen Thompson said that the release for 'The Other Side of the Wind' still was in preparation since the supplements still needed to be worked on.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#88 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:14 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:56 pm
Amazon's already been part of the pack with Cold War a few years back
I know, I'm not suggesting that there's no precedent for involvement, but a previewed slate of releases like Netflix did last year seems to indicate a partnership in a way that alarms me. I'm down for them to release one-offs (especially if Manchester By the Sea became part of a Lonergan box...)
PfR73 wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:59 pm
I disagree with any argument against a film receiving a physical release. Streaming can shove it where the sun don't shine.
Who is arguing against Amazon titles having physical releases? I have several Amazon titles on blu-ray. I'm specifically saying that mathematically if Criterion releases five films a month, and more and more of these new releases are already-accessible films as part of increasing partnerships with these studios, it means less films getting released by them that are begging for rescue, especially if those other films are part of time-limited partnerships with studios. Criterion not releasing a modern film =/= said film will not get a physical release...

Also I wonder about how partnering with these studios will affect their other relationships, or allow rights to lapse, etc. due to time/resource management. For example (random speculation here), if Criterion hypothetically chose to take a deal with Amazon and that impacted their motivation to engage with Paramount, resulting in us getting Les Misérables while a film like Starting Over remains in purgatory, that would bother me.
Last edited by therewillbeblus on Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Maltic
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#89 Post by Maltic » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:16 pm

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:51 pm
We're returning to the late-period of Criterion laserdiscs where Shine and The English Patient were in the collection. One Night in Miami looked exactly like the type of award film that the Weinsteins used to promote. Though I am curious about the Garrett Bradley film.

I'd even take The Rocks and Armageddons over the streaming service Oscar-bait, tbh.

That said, I haven't seen the films either. And maybe these contemporary titles sell better and thereby "finance themselves" anyway. What do I know.
Last edited by Maltic on Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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bainbridgezu
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#90 Post by bainbridgezu » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:19 pm

Looks unlikely, since the article doesn't mention it with this year's awards hopefuls, but Borat Subsequent Moviefilm could offer loads of supplemental and contextual material. Not sure if Criterion could also get the first one from Disney, but it's never received a stateside blu-ray release and was obviously super zeitgeist-y.

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DandyDancing
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#91 Post by DandyDancing » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:20 pm

Or, they could just start releasing more titles per month. Is that not a possibility?

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DarkImbecile
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#92 Post by DarkImbecile » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:23 pm

Maltic wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:16 pm
That said, I haven't seen the films either. And maybe these contemporary titles sell better and thereby "finance themselves" anyway. What do I know.
The announcement coming the same day voting for Oscar nominations starts would imply that Criterion may have received a bit of a sweetheart deal in exchange for their prestige, which supports that theory

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Maltic
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#93 Post by Maltic » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:37 pm

I guess this is where we're at... the Oscars now gaining prestige by associating themselves with Criterion. :)

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PfR73
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#94 Post by PfR73 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:46 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:14 pm
PfR73 wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:59 pm
I disagree with any argument against a film receiving a physical release. Streaming can shove it where the sun don't shine.
Who is arguing against Amazon titles having physical releases? I have several Amazon titles on blu-ray. I'm specifically saying that mathematically if Criterion releases five films a month, and more and more of these new releases are already-accessible films as part of increasing partnerships with these studios, it means less films getting released by them that are begging for rescue, especially if those other films are part of time-limited partnerships with studios. Criterion not releasing a modern film =/= said film will not get a physical release...
Define "accessible." If it means "available on streaming" then why not consider "available on DVD" accessible and therefore negating the need for Starting Over? I consider streaming just as much purgatory as DVD.

Since Lionsgate stopped releasing Amazon Originals around 2-3 years ago, name one American label that has been releasing Amazon Originals on Blu-ray (excluding certain co-productions like The Goldfinch). To this point, there is no clear evidence that without Criterion these films would get Blu-ray releases. The Report isn't on Blu-ray anywhere in the world. 7500 is only available in Germany, without the necessary subtitles for English speakers. Honey Boy, Peterloo, Brittany Runs a Marathon, Get Duked!, Radioactive, Seberg, The Vast of Night; none of these films have Blu-ray releases in the US, and many don't have any worldwide. I'm not saying all of these are great films, or films that I would target as Criterion releases. But Amazon doesn't seem to be playing ball with anybody else, just like Netflix.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#95 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:58 pm

My point is that they could "play ball" with anyone, while not every company's ethos is committed to restoring any film. Look, I'm not saying it's not a smart business decision for everyone involved. I'm simply saying that there is something that feels foreboding to me about more of these streaming companies flocking to Criterion with preview announcement slates, and when a company like Paramount suddenly flies away, it makes me anxiously wonder out loud what this spells, which is what I'm doing in a Random Speculation thread. Personally I don't think my ability to stream a great transfer of a brand new Prime title is equivalent to a buried Columbia title on DVD in priority, because the latter is in greater danger of falling into obscurity, especially if a company like Criterion decides to move into this mode of accruing more modern films from big streaming platforms. I don't disagree with you that both are important to get out into physical form, but I do think that some titles exist on a timetable, priority of which is a significant variable to consider, and there is a looming uneasy threat of consequences that may come with business model shifts. I'm not upset that Criterion are releasing three Amazon films, I'm fearful of the implications of these moves over time if it affects their priorities for other deals and output of more immediate in-need titles.

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willoneill
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#96 Post by willoneill » Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:59 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:58 pm
My point is that they could "play ball" with anyone, while not every company's ethos is committed to restoring any film. Look, I'm not saying it's not a smart business decision for everyone involved. I'm simply saying that there is something that feels foreboding to me about more of these streaming companies flocking to Criterion with preview announcement slates, and when a company like Paramount suddenly flies away, it makes me anxiously wonder out loud what this spells, which is what I'm doing in a Random Speculation thread. Personally I don't think my ability to stream a great transfer of a brand new Prime title is equivalent to a buried Columbia title on DVD in priority, because the latter is in greater danger of falling into obscurity, especially if a company like Criterion decides to move into this mode of accruing more modern films from big streaming platforms. I don't disagree with you that both are important to get out into physical form, but I do think that some titles exist on a timetable, priority of which is a significant variable to consider, and there is looming uneasy threat of consequences that may come with business model shifts. I'm not upset that Criterion are releasing three Amazon films, I'm fearful of the implications of these moves over time if it affects their priorities for other deals and output of more immediate in-need titles.
I agree with this argument in theory, but I disagree that films like Starting Over is more likely to fade into obscurity than The Sound of Metal (as an example). It shouldn't be the case, because The Sound of Metal should be easily available for as long as Amazon is in business (which is forever barring some Standard Oil/Bell Telephone dismantling). The fact is that streaming titles, even the big ones, fade into obscurity almost immediately. The streaming services do not care about these titles beyond 30 days or, in rare cases, the end of award seasons. How many times has Netflix recommended Beasts of No Nation to anyone lately, or hell, even The Irishman? Not me. On the very day it was released, I had to manually search for Ma Rainey's Black Bottom because it didn't appear anywhere on my Netflix front page. But you know what streaming films I still think of often? Roma, Cold War, The Irishman, and Marriage Story. Because they have physical discs that I see every day on my shelf.

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Maltic
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#97 Post by Maltic » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:08 pm

Those titles are still available for streaming though.

As for The Report, it's your typical "timely" political thriller that would be forgotten in a few years even if Criterion did pick it up (and being directed by a white male, it wouldn't even help fill the quotas). It's a shame that many such titles won't get a physical release going forward, but I don't see how Criterion could fill that void.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#98 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:11 pm

Amazon's originals still pop up easily years down the line for me on their platform, what you're describing has been a "Netflix" issue for a long time though (and that extends to them not advertising films that premiere on/around the day they debut, which seems to be mostly remedied as of late). Your point is well-taken. All these films deserve physical releases and my issue is not creating a black-and-white mutually exclusive ethos, where X titles should get all the attention vs. Y titles. But are you actually suggesting that, if we assess the immediacy of a threat to a film fading away, that Sound of Metal is in equivalent danger to Starting Over? I'd be surprised if many people on this forum had even seen the latter, or heard of it at all before some recent championing. I sure hadn't until I did some digging a year or two ago on this forum, and if this forum didn't exist I probably never would have discovered it. Sound of Metal, on the other hand, is the "movie of the year" according to at least three of my friends who ask me every weekend while ice fishing if I've seen it yet. The reality is that by attending to more and more recent titles from Netflix, Amazon, etc. Criterion is creating a slight shift in distribution priorities, and there is some mutual exclusivity that comes with the amount of titles they can manage at a time. I'm not saying this is an outrage, but it worries me for reasons I think I've articulated with my random speculation.

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willoneill
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#99 Post by willoneill » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:24 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:11 pm
But are you actually suggesting that, if we assess the immediacy of a threat to a film fading away, that Sound of Metal is in equivalent danger to Starting Over?
Not Sound of Metal, no, because it's getting a physical release. But The Report, or the previously mentioned Beasts of No Nation, those will have faded into obscurity a mere couple of years from now (if they haven't already; I'd argue they have). Yet Starting Over will still be talked about; I mean, it's still being talked about all these years later, isn't it?

I agree with you that this problem is largely related to Netflix' practices. But that fact doesn't make the obscurity caused by those practices any less real, and thus Criterion's solution (i.e. giving them physical releases) any less important.

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soundchaser
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Re: Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

#100 Post by soundchaser » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:24 pm

To be fair, this is the first I'm hearing of Sound of Metal, but I'm even more out-of-touch with prestige drama Oscar nominees this year than normal.

(I do agree with your sentiment, twbb, for the same reason I think Indicator's release of Irreversible is confusing. It seems a weird shift in priorities.)

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