World of Wong Kar Wai

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#601 Post by tenia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:13 am

Gary doesn't know what he's talking about here, so he's bringing up the quote to cover himself in case he missed what was cut.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#602 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:39 am

I thought the point of DVDBeaver was to be first off the block with screencaps. I've certainly never relied on it for in-depth forensic analysis of the disc contents, and can't imagine why anyone would.

User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#603 Post by tenia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:09 am

And even those screencaps aren't even accurate.

Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#604 Post by Orlac » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:19 am

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:39 am
I thought the point of DVDBeaver was to be first off the block with screencaps. I've certainly never relied on it for in-depth forensic analysis of the disc contents, and can't imagine why anyone would.
I suppose some use it for the nude pics...

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#605 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:19 am

Only in your fevered imagination, I suspect. Had the Beev been around in the 1950s, people starved for porn would have regarded it as manna from heaven, like that bloke quoted in David McGillivray's Doing Rude Things who travelled halfway across London to see a film where, it was rumoured,
SpoilerShow
you got a glimpse of a woman's nipple for a fraction of a second.
But now? Not so much.

Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#606 Post by Orlac » Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:22 pm

I see my sense of humour is lost on you.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#607 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:30 pm

No, not at all - I just took your rather cheap and obvious gag and riffed on it, in the process perhaps paying more attention to it than it really deserved.

cowboydan
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#608 Post by cowboydan » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:44 pm

I just watched the Happy Together restoration next to the KIno. Good news is that there's no missing video footage!! I think the end credits are a bit longer. They're new with a bunch of colors. Bad news is there there are some missing lines of monologue.

Most notably in the scene when Tony Leung and Chang Chen hug. and say goodbye. In the Kino, Tony's inner monologue says "Was it because we had become close? When I held him all I could hear was my own heart beating. Did he hear it too?" On the Criterion, it's completely absent.

The other changes are minor. For example (spoken in Cantonese of course). These are from various scenes:

Kino "I'm not sure why, but that summer went by very fast"
Criterion "That summer went by very fast"

Kino "In the end I said I hoped he'd treat me as a friend"
Criterion "I hoped he'd treat me as a friend""

Kino "I feel like I'm waking up from a long sleep. I'm back on this side of the world."
Criterion "I'm back on this side of the world."

Otherwise, there's a little bit of timing changes with the monologues, but it's mostly negligible IMO.

Additionally, I think someone mentioned that some changes were made in the jump from theatrical to DVD or from DVD to BD. I noticed this difference from a DVD edition to the Kino BD. In the scene of Chang Chen looking for Tony Leung. So Chang Chen inner monologue:

Kino / Criterion: "I wanted to say goodbye to Fai but nobody knew where he was." end
DVD: "I wanted to say goodbye to Fai but nobody knew where he was. I thought I'd hear his voice. Maybe the music's too loud. I couldn't hear anything."

This adds so much more to the scene since it references a conversation he had with Fai (Tony) earlier.
Last edited by cowboydan on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#609 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:54 pm

Are these actual soundtrack changes, or the result of differing subtitle translations?

cowboydan
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#610 Post by cowboydan » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:31 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:54 pm
Are these actual soundtrack changes, or the result of differing subtitle translations?
The spoken audio (overdubbed monologue) is actually cut
Last edited by cowboydan on Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#611 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:48 pm

At least the problem isn't that the subtitles are bordering on Godard's "Navajo" approach!

User avatar
MichaelB
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: Worthing
Contact:

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#612 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:32 pm

You've just given me flashbacks to watching Straub/Huillet's Class Relations, whose DVD - apparently at Danièle Huillet's personal insistence - gives you the absolute barest minimum translation in order to force you to listen to what's actually being said. It was by far the biggest workout my German has had since getting an O-level in 1983.

cowboydan
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#613 Post by cowboydan » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:42 pm

In a scene towards the end when Tony is writing a letter, the timing of his monologue is different. On the Kino, the lines are delivered in relatively quick succession. A Cantonese speak would have no trouble absorbing the words, but for those who have to read the subs it can be perhaps a little too quick. On the Criterion version, there's more space between the lines. It give us more time to read and absorb the words. It also gives the scene a more poetic and contemplative feeling. I'd say it's debatable that this specific change is acceptable.

User avatar
Sternhalma Weinstein
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:02 am

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#614 Post by Sternhalma Weinstein » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:02 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:30 pm
No, not at all - I just took your rather cheap and obvious gag and riffed on it, in the process perhaps paying more attention to it than it really deserved.
Is this tone necessary? He made a couple one-line comments - the first an obvious but decidedly true observation about dvdbeaver, the other a not the least bit least bit vicious comeback towards you - and this is the response he gets?

Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#615 Post by Orlac » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:10 pm

Sternhalma Weinstein wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:02 pm
MichaelB wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 4:30 pm
No, not at all - I just took your rather cheap and obvious gag and riffed on it, in the process perhaps paying more attention to it than it really deserved.
Is this tone necessary? He made a couple one-line comments - the first an obvious but decidedly true observation about dvdbeaver, the other a not the least bit least bit vicious comeback towards you - and this is the response he gets?
Don't worry, I'm used to it.

Not impressed by such rudeness, mind you.
Last edited by Orlac on Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cowboydan
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#616 Post by cowboydan » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:20 pm

I just compared the 2046 restoration to the Tartan DVD. Similar to the others, there's less contrast, but more clarity in many instances. More shadow detail. Sometimes the blacks look raised but not too often I think.

Often the colors are more naturalistic than the DVD. Oddly, instead of retaining the yellowish green from the DVD, much of the restoration's runtime has reduced it. It's funny (frustrating) because it's the opposite change than we saw in "In the Mood for Love". When the greens are pulled down in 2046, warmer hues take their place. There are a few exceptions to this though.

There are a few scenes that look virtually unaltered, which is good. But not enough of them are that way.

In the future train scenes, the reds and stronger and less orangey than the DVD. The white and blue highlights stand out more in these scenes since the green tint is reduced.

The end credits are pretty much the same on both versions.

In the CGI intro of the train in 2046 city, there are many neon signs. Strangely there are some areas of the signs and elsewhere in the frame that look to be purposefully blurred. I have no idea why they did that.

Tartan DVD (Left) vs Restoration (Right)
SpoilerShow

First it looks like this

Image

A few frames later it looks like this

Image
I'll try to post some more caps tonight after I get home from work.

User avatar
Sternhalma Weinstein
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:02 am

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#617 Post by Sternhalma Weinstein » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:37 pm

cowboydan wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:20 pm
I have no idea why they did that.
The most succinct review this set deserves.

User avatar
dwk
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#618 Post by dwk » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:53 pm


User avatar
soundchaser
Leave Her to Beaver
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:32 am

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#619 Post by soundchaser » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:01 am

I cannot believe how easily Tooze acquiesces to the “new widescreen.” In a just world every reviewer would be outraged at these changes.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#620 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:19 am

As I scrolled, I kept thinking "oh it's not so bad," until I realized I was comparing the Kino and AE and there was one more cap left in each section (shudder)

User avatar
soundchaser
Leave Her to Beaver
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:32 am

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#621 Post by soundchaser » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:23 am

That sixth set of caps shows the new framing chopping off a character’s head entirely. Something tells me that *wasn’t* what Christopher Doyle intended.

cowboydan
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#622 Post by cowboydan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:26 am

The funniest part to me is "There seemed to be other subtle changes but I won't be the one to document them."

User avatar
feihong
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:20 pm

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#623 Post by feihong » Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:59 am

Very depressing to see people that are looked to as authorities of one stripe or another jumping on the bandwagon with this revisionist weirdness. Not to say that people on this site give DVDBeaver so much credence, but certainly people out there do respect Tooze's word on these things. When the Redux of Ashes of Time came out, people reacted pretty similarly. It seemed then that so many people had never seen a previous version of the film, but here's someone who has seen Fallen Angels quite a bit, and is allegedly charmed by this new way to view the film, with no skepticism whatsoever.

Seeing more images from this new version just underlines for me what a bad choice it is to make this the only version of this film in the set. It looks eye-gouging, jarring in the extreme, and I can't imagine watching 90s minutes of it with the feeling that the image is so demonstrably horizontally stretched. "Original intent" or not, it looks as uncomfortable an experience to me as all the strobing lights throughout Rise of Skywalker. And of course, the futzing around with color in b&w scenes and b&w in color scenes is all-around disappointing. And what a shame that Karen Mok's face gets cropped out of that shot with the re-colored TV.

yoshimori
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:03 am
Location: LA CA

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#624 Post by yoshimori » Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:12 am

dwk wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:53 pm
sigh, Fallen Beaver
The "original" Fallen Angels is one of my favorite films. I (and friends of mine) have cried at its beauty. But the new aspect ratio looks ... amazing! The feeling of distorted space, at least from these stills, seems thrillingly enhanced. Can't wait to see these "new" movies.

User avatar
hearthesilence
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:22 am
Location: NYC

Re: World of Wong Kar Wai

#625 Post by hearthesilence » Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:29 am

In Wong's defense, the super-wide look does like incredibly striking on first glance...but seeing it in every shot also feels too gimmicky, like it overwhelms any other aesthetic element at any given moment. Who knows, maybe I'll grow accustomed to it, but I really wish it was simply an alternate version, not the ONLY version from here on out.

Post Reply