DC Comics on Film

Discuss films of the 21st century including current cinema, current filmmakers, and film festivals.
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Big Ben
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#301 Post by Big Ben » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:26 pm

So yeah about Justice League. Here's an article from The Wrap with some real explanations as to why it's as bad as it is.

Here's why the film was shoved out the door. Hilarious!
One executive told TheWrap Tsujihara and Emmerich “wanted to preserve their bonuses they would be paid before the merger,” and were worried that “if they pushed the movie, then their bonuses would have been pushed to the following year and they might not still be at the studio.”
That's incredible. Take a loss over the film for personal benefit in the short term. Incredible.

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dx23
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#302 Post by dx23 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:46 pm

Big Ben wrote:So yeah about Justice League. Here's an article from The Wrap with some real explanations as to why it's as bad as it is.

Here's why the film was shoved out the door. Hilarious!
One executive told TheWrap Tsujihara and Emmerich “wanted to preserve their bonuses they would be paid before the merger,” and were worried that “if they pushed the movie, then their bonuses would have been pushed to the following year and they might not still be at the studio.”
That's incredible. Take a loss over the film for personal benefit in the short term. Incredible.
I find amusing that they are now depending on Aquaman to continue this cinematic universe. Seriously, do they expect Wan, a guy who directs horror films, to provide a light, fun tone that the studio is now looking for? Even worse, do they really think that Jason Momoa can carry a whole film by himself the way Gal Gadot did with Wonder Woman? WB pushed themselves into a corner by rushing films without seeing the results first. Instead of regrouping, they keep digging a hole on this franchise. I'm not saying that the Arrowverse and its actors are the greatest, but man, those shows have been fun watching, something that these films, except Wonder Woman, lack. The CW DC shows just had a 4 part, 2-day crossover event with almost every hero from each show, and it blows away most of what WB has done in their cinematic universe.

WB reminds me of Fox and their continued quest to do a Fantastic Four film. If they don't like the source material, then give it to someone who does and will do a great job bringing it to the big screen.

McCrutchy
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#303 Post by McCrutchy » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:00 am

This is precisely why I'm hoping Aquaman fails, because, unless it's somehow amazing, with a sort of Deadpool-like-effect, it's not going to change the DC formula. And, for all the hype that Wonder Woman got, it was simply above-average, and even that couldn't do enough to save Justice League.

In fact, I think Wonder Woman 2 may not be as sure a bet as people think, because if the script and story aren't great, I wonder if it will have the legs of the first film. Remember, a lot of people (myself included) were fans of the Wonder Woman TV series, and therefore, even some non-comic fans had waited for a Wonder Woman film for 40+ years, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn a lot of people went out of sheer curiosity, and a desire to see something different. And remember, DC were in the unique position of having Wonder Woman's extended cameo in Batman v Superman be the highlight of that film, so that boosted the promise of her solo film quite a bit, too. But, the sequel won't have any of that built-in hype, so I think it may need to actually be better than the first one to make a ton of money, especially after opening weekend. Plus, Gadot sure as hell ain't gonna be workin' for no $300,000 salary on the sequel, and Jenkins is probably making more for the follow-up, too.

And consider how much responsibility would fall on Wonder Woman 2 if Aquaman (f**king Aquaman!) shits the bed next year? I mean, if Jenkins/Gadot somehow pull a Nolan/Bale and deliver a sequel that is The Dark Knight to their Batman Begins, then that would be fabulous, but we all know how rare such successes are, especially with blockbuster films.

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tenia
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#304 Post by tenia » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:45 am

Still amazed on how the DC movies are mostly perceived as mediocre but somehow, WW and the Marvel movies arent.

McCrutchy
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#305 Post by McCrutchy » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:04 am

tenia wrote:Still amazed on how the DC movies are mostly perceived as mediocre but somehow, WW and the Marvel movies arent.
Honestly, it's about like more than anything else, and it helps a lot if you like the actors and/or characters a lot. None of these films are honestly that great, but they are sometimes fun or moderately thrilling popcorn adventures. Of the major superhero movies released since 2005, there is maybe one bonafide amazing film, and that is The Dark Knight. After that, the other two Nolan films are very, very good, but from there, you get into very good "for a comic book movie", which is probably where Logan, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, any or all of the Iron Man films, Thor: Ragnarok and Captain America: Civil War would be (in that order) for me.

I actually hadn't seen any Marvel films since The Incredible Hulk and the first Iron Man film back in 2008, when in early 2014, I happened to notice a trailer for Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and discovered that Robert Redford was in it. That spurred me to get the intervening films on Blu-ray, so I could watch Winter Soldier in the theater, and since then, I've kept up with the series, mainly because they often cast actors I like (Jenny Agutter, Cate Blanchett, Glenn Close, Jeff Goldblum, Anthony Hopkins, Ben Kingsley, Robert Redford, Rene Russo, etc.) in smaller roles and I like seeing them on big screens again. I also like Robert Downey, Jr., and I feel he has elevated the Iron Man movies a lot, to where he can even make a movie like Captain America: Civil War much better than it would have been without him.

I am not nearly the fan of The Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy films that everyone else seems to be, and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 was childish garbage, in my opinion. I will see Avengers: Infinity Pool (and likely the second one), mainly to watch it/them wrap up this "phase", and then I think I will be done, unless they give a major role to another actor I really enjoy in the future, which seems unlikely as most of those actors are now in their 40s and older.

Since Logan seems to really mean that Hugh Jackman is done with Wolverine, the obvious other exception is Deadpool, which doesn't fit with the others, and was just a damn fun movie, which was a bit naughty, and so refreshing. I will definitely see the sequel, and if that somehow maintains the quality of the first film, who knows from there.

I would also be up for any other interesting superhero films that are released, but the Marvel films aren't that, and while they are entertaining, I really wonder where they will go after 2019, and not in a way that suggests I want to see any other films, either.

In fact, like many people in the past thirty/forty years, I am much more of a Batman/Superman fan than any other hero(es), but it's just that the Snyder films, while visually interesting, have odd characterizations, and take the characters in bizarrely dark directions without just cause.

That's why I really can't wait for this era of superhero films to be over. With few exceptions, all we've had are films that are entertaining, but not that interesting, or re-watchable. Though I will admit, I do want to keep re-watching the Snyder films every once in a while, to try and understand what happened.

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tenia
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#306 Post by tenia » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:18 am

I haven't seen all the very latest Marvel movies (Ragnarok and Civil War), but have in the end seen pretty much all of the other ones, and whether it's Age of Ultron, Iron Man 2 & 3, Captain America 2 or Doctor Strange, I found them all to range from mediocre to sometimes absolutely unbearable.
Even when fast-forwarding through it, I thought Age of Ultron would never end. Sadly, I don't expect Infinity War to be much better, because seemingly, the team behind these movies don't know how to make so many characters alive simultaneously.

Contrary to you, I liked a lot Guardians of the Galaxy 2, because it felt in a long time that Marvel wasn't just trying to have a "hub" movie for their next crossover but instead was trying to buff up their characters which, too often, simply aren't interestingly written. I didn't like so much what they tried to do with Raccoon because it felt to ham-fisted, but I liked a lot with they did with Star Lord, and even more Rondu.

Logan ? It felt like a R-rated movie that didn't have anything else to offer than, well, being R-rated. It's been a long time since I having the movie trying so hard to focus on something so pointless. In a way, I'm happy they didn't go the Deadpool route, meaning a dumb movie but hey it's gross and vulgar so it must be adult oriented ! But Logan didn't feel mature at all, it just felt like the usual super hero movie, except vaguely darker and gorier, but there was none of the emotional depth I expected to find.

The talents involved in these movies actually make things look even worse for me, because they feel wasted and very gimmicky. Redford in The Winter Soldier ? Oh sure that's an obvious wink-wink to 3 Days of the Condor, but The Winter Soldier is a dumb take on espionnage movie which is a massive misfire on this (on top of being awfully directed and shot).


So as a whole, if I had to grade all these, whether it's Marvel or DC, most of them would get grades between 3 and 6 out of 10, with only a handful faring better. That's why I never understand how some are perceived as so good and others so poor.

To me (and many others, at least in France), they're really all different shades of mediocrity, and that's including stuff like Wonder Woman.

McCrutchy
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#307 Post by McCrutchy » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:13 am

That's why it's so unfortunate that they are where all the time, money and investment end up going.

For me, I'd much rather see quality actors in quality films, but the dumbing down of cinema has meant that even if great actors get significant roles in quality films, most of the time, those films get small budgets, and consequently, end up on the smaller screens in the cinema, or worse, never end up at your cinema at all, unless you're lucky enough to live in New York City or Los Angeles.

For example, the other day, I had to watch Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri on one of the smallest screens at my local 24-screen multiplex, despite me seeing it on its first day in the theater. And why? Well, because all the major screens were taken up by Justice League or Coco (or occasionally, possibly Wonder), with the tanking comic book movie still spending at least most of each day on all the biggest screens, in spite of it opening ten days before.

The only brilliant and/or challenging films I've been able to see on the best screens have been the ones that get IMAX releases, or otherwise happen to be thought of as "commercial", which means it was Blade Runner 2049 in IMAX DMR on opening day, Coco at a Tuesday night "preview", and of course, the glorious Dunkirk, opening day in IMAX 15/70 (twice in a row, because it was a day long trip) and then again in standard 70mm at a theater closer to home. Otherwise, I'm stuck with the smaller screens, even on opening day, and at that point, with a 2K DCP for most of these films, a Blu-ray in my home theater setup gets uncomfortably close to the same quality, with a lot less hassle, and significantly more convenience.

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tenia
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#308 Post by tenia » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:01 am

McCrutchy wrote:That's why it's so unfortunate that they are where all the time, money and investment end up going.
It's hard to blame studios for trying to give what seemingly the audience is craving.
If people would definitely stop making these movies so profitable in most of the cases, studios would stop doing them, or at least slow down.
What seems extremely silly to me though is the absurd budget given to these. Can't they really be done for a bit cheaper ?

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Big Ben
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#309 Post by Big Ben » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:12 am

They can most certainly be done for cheaper. Deadpool had such a limited budget they turned it into a self aware gag involving the X-Men Academy. Note, NSFW. Deadpool was made for 58 million and grossed 783 million. They can certainly make these films without a colossal budget and turn in a massive profit.

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dx23
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#310 Post by dx23 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:40 pm

Big Ben wrote:They can most certainly be done for cheaper. Deadpool had such a limited budget they turned it into a self aware gag involving the X-Men Academy. Note, NSFW. Deadpool was made for 58 million and grossed 783 million. They can certainly make these films without a colossal budget and turn in a massive profit.
The first Iron Man also had a modest budget and it made a massive profit. Still, I don't mind huge budgets that provides us with good effects, like Guardians of the Galaxy, as long as the film is good. While I agree that there are several of the Marvel films that are mediocre, like Iron Man 2, Thor 2, and Age of Ultron, most of the other ones are really good films, with some excellent ones like Winter Soldier, GotG 1 & 2 and Doctor Strange.

Hollywood will always be Hollywood and studios will imitate what is successful somewhere else and sometimes prevent from good, original projects coming out, but I've always said, there are good movies, of all genres, still being produced. Directors like Nolan have leveraged themselves into being able to do the films they want by doing superhero films and being successful at it. The same way buddy cop/reckeless cop/big guns action/comedy films dominated the 80's, now we have the era of the comic book film. It translate well from the medium it's sourced and as long as Marvel keeps doing it well, it will continue.
Last edited by dx23 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Big Ben
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#311 Post by Big Ben » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:05 pm

I agree with your sentiments for the most part. Hollywood is going to be Hollywood regardless of what anyone posts on this forum. And now that they've made those big bucks they're not going to stop anytime soon (At least Marvel.)

I'm more than willing to admit that I don't consider many of them "great". I think a majority of them are simple popcorn flicks that are worth their run-time if you're out on a date or with the kids. Aside from Logan (Which I really liked) I don't think I've seen a single one of these films that I legitimately thought was particularly interesting to me in the long term on any level. In fact in the time since this craze started I really only consider Logan and The Dark Knight to something that's really stuck in my brain.

I do however see one very interesting prospect for them and that's minority representation. Black Panther is going to be a big deal for my black friends and that cultural milestone is important. It's important to remember that superheroes are really popular with kids and in this current political climate (At least here in the US) having a black hero up on screen is really great for them.

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cantinflas
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DC Comics on Film

#312 Post by cantinflas » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:34 am



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Ribs
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#314 Post by Ribs » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:10 pm


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domino harvey
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#315 Post by domino harvey » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:35 pm

I'm sure WB cut Spielberg the biggest sweetheart deal in history, because this is exactly what they need to right the DC brand

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Ribs
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#316 Post by Ribs » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:51 pm

It's not really a superhero project, though: they're basically just fun war stories, set during the war. Assuming there's no modern twist, there's probably a strong stylistic overlap with the 1940s serial vibe of Indiana Jones that they're looking to draw on.

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dx23
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Re: Comic Books on Film

#317 Post by dx23 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:21 pm

I wonder if they will include Sgt. Rock or Enemy Ace on the Blackhawk film. The concept is pretty good and Spielberg should be able to make it a fun film. I imagine it will tie somehow to Steve Trevor from the Wonder Woman film. That character is too popular not use again. I also wonder if they would start looking at properties like Justice Society, who are also from that WWII era.

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dx23
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#318 Post by dx23 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:05 pm

Rumor going around that the next Batman film will be a reboot without Affleck. I'm not surprised by this since the last vestige of the Snyder era, Geoff Johns, has been moved out of the CCO of the company and demoted to a producer position and will help write "Green Lantern Corps". Everyone outside of WB and DC Comics could see that the Snyder/Johns films were not going to work. I just hope that they still continue with Gadot as Wonder Woman and Cavill as Superman. Every other character, should be recast and hopefully, the new group in charge starts using the actual source material instead of making a hodgepodge of different sources to make a movie.

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knives
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#319 Post by knives » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:50 pm

I thought Affleck was pretty good as an older Batman even as he was never placed in a good movie.

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cantinflas
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#320 Post by cantinflas » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:29 pm


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R0lf
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#321 Post by R0lf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:24 am

Needs more crotch.

Werewolf by Night

Re: DC Comics on Film

#322 Post by Werewolf by Night » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:53 pm

Everything else in that costume looks heavily padded, so why not?

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#323 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:16 pm

Shazam!

I laughed out loud 3 times, but have a feeling this is as funny as it gets. I hope not.

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Never Cursed
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#324 Post by Never Cursed » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:50 pm

The Berlanti-produced Titans series looks awful, so I'm not sure if I'm any more confident in their TV shows than their films

hanshotfirst1138
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Re: DC Comics on Film

#325 Post by hanshotfirst1138 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:23 pm

Mungo wrote:The Berlanti-produced Titans series looks awful, so I'm not sure if I'm any more confident in their TV shows than their films
The so-called Arrowverse of shows-Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow does have its ups and downs, but it’s lots of fun.

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