Meet Me in St. Louis

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Michael
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#1 Post by Michael » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:18 am

The 2-disc set has been out for three years now and I thought for sure that Meet Me in St. Louis had its own thread somewhere in here. I searched and searched. Nothing! So here it is: Meet Me in St. Louis's own Criterion Forum thread.

I'm wondering if there are fans of this very beautiful and charming musical here. I've heard Liza Minnelli mentioning that Meet Me in St. Louis is her mom Judy Garland's personal favorite work. Once in a while I go through the Vincent Minnelli phase...revisiting some of his famous films. The Clock just out on DVD is a wonderful film, very much underrated. My partner who watched The Clock with me liked it quite a lot (when Judy first appeared, he beamed up waving to the TV screen with "Hello Judy!") and kept waiting for Judy to burst out in singing every other scene but she didn't. And that's what makes this film kind of special and unique - a must seen for everyone Judy Garland fan or not. Her strolling through the 1940s Manhattan with her newly discovered love - in all a very lovely but bittersweet film. But Judy in her most sublime prime bursts out with everything she has in Meet Me in St. Louis my favorite of all Vincent Minnelli films. Surely, it's a very sweet and old-fashioned musical - a nostalgic valentine to youthful romance - but it manages to have a deliciously dark edge. All captured in the most rich Technicolor I've seen outside Stahls, Sirks and Suspiria. More than 60 years old, it's still fresh as a newly picked daisy.
Last edited by Michael on Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Michael Kerpan
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#2 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:21 am

Nice DVD of a very enjoyable film.

Everyone not utterly allergic to musicals should own a copy.

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Belmondo
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#3 Post by Belmondo » Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:43 am

Yup; one of the great musicals and I was flabbergasted to learn from the commentary track that I was watching a true story! It is based on childhood recollections by author Sally Benson and is so accurate that only minor details were changed, such as reversing the numbers in the street address for "The Boy Next Door" so the lyrics would rhyme.
Also, very important in reminding contemporary audiences of what we were fighting for. The story may have been set at the turn of the century, but when Judy sings "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas", audiences understood that she was singing to our soldiers in Europe and the Pacific, and that the "golden days of yore" would be returning soon.

I love THE CLOCK too, and wonder if Minnelli needed to show that Judy was now a woman, not a girl, since he was about to marry her himself. The moment the DVD came out, I posted a rave review over on Netflix, and am saddened to report that only eleven people have clicked on it. If we set aside the emotionally untenable idea that my reviews are crap, we are left with the possibility that these wonderful movies are slowly being forgotten. What a shame.

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Michael
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#4 Post by Michael » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:05 pm

The moment the DVD came out, I posted a rave review over on Netflix, and am saddened to report that only eleven people have clicked on it
Now 12. :) The two Netflix reviews at the bottom attack Robert Walker's acting - strange, stiff, frozen-faced, almost zombie-like. I find that very odd because I found him very warm and extremely likeable in The Clock. He was perfect. So was Judy. Both were incredibly believable and my heart melt over their quiet morning gaze at the hotel. I love how it ends on a positive note, especially that it came out during the war time.. Judy walked away with hope and faith. No crying or breaking down. Very nice.

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#5 Post by Michael Kerpan » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:09 pm

Belmondo wrote: I was watching a true story! It is based on childhood recollections by author Sally Benson
Even without watching any commentary I guessed this was based on someone's real childhood memories -- I also guessed the memories were those of the middle daughter (who is mostly never at the center of the story). ;~}

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#6 Post by ezmbmh » Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:29 pm

one of my favorites as well. Garland's duet with Mgt O'Brien, the trolley song, Have Yourself a Merry. I remember seeing it as a kid and writing it off as good songs/treacly sentimental old time story, another hokey paean to an America that never was. Now I don't think so. There's a grimmer foreboding undertone suggesting this fairytale world (if it ever existed) can't last.

Spoiler ahead:

I mean in the undercurrent of the father uprooting the happy family--economy invades the heartland; in the absolute melancholy of the lyrics in Have Yourself, gotta be the saddest merry christmas song ever (excellent commentary shows the original verses were even grimmer); the scene where the kids are out celebrating Halloween, the fire too big for just marshmallows, the moment where O'Brien braves the bad guy's porch and pelts him with flour, played for laughs but not really very funny; and the weird disquieting scene where Mgt O'Brien demolishes the snowmen in her anger. Most of these involve the youngest child who, more than her older sibs, will, it seems likely, grow up into a much harsher world. Overall, a feeling not of tranquility restored so much as We barely dodged that one--what next?

Similar feeling to me as the ending of It's a Wonderful Life, where all the pieces are back in place, the angels are winging, but the memory of Gloria Grahame in the bar in Nighttown just won't go away.

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Michael
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#7 Post by Michael » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:07 pm

Judy is very much on my mind these days. Straight friends keep asking me why she is such a huge gay icon and how she became one. I'd like to share with you some info I just found.

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#8 Post by Narshty » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:16 pm

I don't want to go off the rails here but, in all honesty, this is the most delightful film I know. There's so much to enjoy coming from so many angles simultaneously - Minnelli's direction, the script, the music, the photography, the design, the performances. None of them falter, or pause, or overwhelm the others - the separate elements are all so exquisitely judged and aligned. And is there any other movie, especially with such an episodic structure, that flows so magnificently? There's never the sense that the actors stopped between takes or went home at the end of the day - the rhythm and energy is so sustained it feels like everyone involved decided to go ahead and shoot the movie in one long take.

I know they must be out there, but I still can't imagine the kind of person who'd dislike this film - you'd simply have to hate most of the reasons that make living worthwhile.

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Michael
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#9 Post by Michael » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:11 pm

Narshty, I absolutely agree with you that Meet Me in St. Louis feels like one long take. With so much happening through the seasons, the film unfolds smoothly and effortlessly. Simply incredible. Have you seen The Band Wagon, another Minnelli musical I like quite a lot?

I just came to realize that I've not seen Easter Parade yet. Shame on me (I think?). Not a Minnelli film but from the description I read, it certainly sounds like one. And with Judy!

ezmbmh
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#10 Post by ezmbmh » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:19 pm

Michael, Easter Parade is right up there with St Louis and Band Wagon (I'd put it above the latter, myself). The music's great and both Garland and Astaire have a terrific time. For an example of why I love JG so much, watch her during the wonderful salad-making scene with Eric Blore--it'll be hard, because he's so hilarious. I can't remember another instance of one actor (JG) so openly enjoying another actor's performance. It's not just her voice, or her story, or her iconage (?), it's the way she's one of the most open (revealed, human, true, insert adjective here) actors ever. I can hardly watch anyone else when she's onscreen.

See it--I expect you'll love it, too

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Michael
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#11 Post by Michael » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:38 pm

david, whats your favorite Judy movie? Minnelli movie? What do you think of Meet Me? I feel this one stands out in the crowd of its peers.

Summer Stock and Funny Face are leaning atop my to-see pile and I should be getting Easter Parade very soon.

And last thing, have you seen The Band Wagon? I like that a lot..actually more than its "sister" Singin' in the Rain.

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Belmondo
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#12 Post by Belmondo » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:17 pm

SUMMER STOCK has its flaws, but none of them involve Judy or Gene Kelly, and they are indeed joyous together. I believe this is the movie in which Judy's dancing is so good that Gene said "it is the only time the audience looked at my partner and never looked at me". Gene did this movie out of loyalty to Judy after she supported him eight years earlier in his film debut in FOR ME AND MY GAL.

SUMMER STOCK ends with the wonderful "Get Happy" number; and notice that Judy appears more thin and sexy than she does in the rest of the movie. She was called back a month after the movie wrapped to add a showstopping climax, and, boy, did she provide it. Those legs! That outfit! This was the final scene Judy ever did for MGM. She was released from her contract right after the movie opened.

ezmbmh
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#13 Post by ezmbmh » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:13 pm

david, thanks for the correction about the salad tosser--I had a feeling I should've checked. there's another thread that mentions attachments to movies that may exceed the movie's merits--Sweet Movie and WR, I think. I'll stand by my attachment to Easter Parade, but want to add that I grew up seeing this in NY, as a Jewish kid in love w Judy (Easter envy), then it was on one night when I couldn't sleep in a hospital.

Interesting what you say about the chemistry between Garland and Astaire. I agree there's no traditional chemistry (aka "spark"), but I still get the feeling they're having a good time, if mostly individually--it's odd how little time's given to their actual relationship, post Judy's spurning Lawford, developing. Mostly for me it's the music, the dancing (Miller, Drum Crazy, Steppin Out) and Judy and Fred, if in romantic stasis, seeming to have fun with their parts.

Maybe it's just me.

Now, if you wanna look for problems, there's Lawford's robotic Fella w an Umbrella...

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Michael
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#14 Post by Michael » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:48 am

Without the cheesy drag of St Louis or Easter Parade.
Oh come on David. Cheesy drag? St Louis is playing on TCM right now. This has to have some of the most magnificent, flawless, seamless designs of colors, costumes, photography, music in all of the history of the world.

ezmbmh
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#15 Post by ezmbmh » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:02 pm

David, you're eloquent about your love for the genre--no argument here.

What I take your meaning to be about "cheesy drag" has (though I may be off mark, again) something to do with the combination of formula and nostalgia and the "stagey" feel of many musicals. I remember the first times I saw Meet Me I couldn't get past the Hallmark framing, costumes, decor, etc. Even the "lurid" colors put me off at first. None of that bothers me now, as the picture enchants overall.

But that's also what I referred to in my first post about the grimmer undertone I see in the film--which gives an odd cast to the homey sepia feel of the plot and setting, and--pardon this--cuts through the cheese.

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Belmondo
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#16 Post by Belmondo » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:42 pm

As David said, these musicals exist to "fill us with pleasure" and they still do it today. Many of them were specifically designed as as alternative to the real world of the Depression and the war years which immediately followed.
No, I cannot offer any better reason for the existence of movies, except to say that these classics have transcended their original purpose of taking audiences out of their grim surroundings and continue to provide us with that special something that recent attempts such as CHICAGO and DREAMGIRLS do not quite attain.
I suppose I could attempt to make a case that the threat of terrorism now provides the same societal unease that spawned the classic musicals, but I fear we have moved away from all this and will (happily) have to return to the classics to find pure pleasure.

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zedz
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#17 Post by zedz » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:42 am

Not much to add here, except that Meet Me In St Louis is my second favourite Minnelli after The Band Wagon (any five minutes of which is so exhilarating it can put you on a high that lasts all day). I love its detailed characterisation and relaxed structure (frenetic plotting has been the downfall of many a musical), and the unusual, complex moods it attains. Judy singing "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" is pindrop sublime.

I agree with Dave about Judy and Gene. Summer Stock is a joy and I don't think he was ever more genuinely likable - maybe his least ironic and faux-self-deprecatory performance. And I've never been entirely convinced by Easter Parade either. To me, it seems like some crucial inner mechanism is broken: you can hear the rattle when you shake it (but not when it's Ann Miller doing the shaking).

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Michael
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#18 Post by Michael » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:30 pm

David, thanks for elaborating on the musicals being discussed here. I've never head of I Love Melvin. I will be viewing Summer Stock, Easter Parade and Funny Face for the first time this week. Wanna join me? I got some wine and champagne freshly stocked up. :)

I still need to revisit Band Wagon.. it's been a long time but I remember devouring it with all my heart. I watch St. Louis two or three times every year. Superficially, it's like vintage greeting cards coming to life.. not a bad thing because every detail is so downright precious that I'm always left in awe every time I watch it. And the camera! How it slides seamlessly through windows and walls - the music cues always perfect, the melancholy atmosphere - invoking the feeling of having a beautiful dream from afar. Every person in the film is so unique that it's impossible to focus on just one person and Judy being the star she is never steals the spotlight away from any one of them. I just love everything about St. Louis - Tootie singing St Louis up the stairs led to grandpa singing in the bathroom dances the camera out of the window toward the sisters singing in their buggy (SUBLIME!) ...and there's not much I can add to the stunning Merry Christmas scene except that I love that silvery, icicly thing Judy wraps around her head. And I also love that the film doesn't drown itself into the "grandness" of the state fair. Instead it maintains its focus on the family, not the fair.

Edit: Watched Meet Me in St. Louis and The Band Wagon back to back yesterday and Summer Stock today. I still prefer St Louis over Wagon and Stock by miles. Don't get me wrong, the latter two are good fun. I guess I'm not a fan of "lets put on the show" musicals. St Louis remains unlike anything I've seen. It's among the most unique musical movies of all time. Wagon suffers greatly from the first half which drags and drags. So extremely talky talky basically about nothing, well actually about the horribly-paced build up of the Faust musical disaster. The plot was awfully thin (perfectly fine for the genre however...) that there was no excuse to drag the movie down with way long stretches of pointless talking without bothering to develop the characters a bit. I was like: "Come on, lets get going". It takes more than one or two great numbers for me to completely love a musical.

St. Louis is like a shatter-proof snow globe. Perfect in every way. The dreamy cinematography (much more mind burning than Wagon) and jawdropping editing style of Louis make this one of my favorite films of all time. And Judy never looks this sublime again. I can't think of anything wrong with this masterpiece. zedz wrote that it can put you on a high that lasts all day and it still does to me every time I watch it - a high with a strange brew of happiness and melancholy that lasts for days and sometimes weeks. Sealing me inside a beautiful honey-rose dream that comes from far away, another time.

PS I also saw two more musicals very recently. Easter Parade was a torture to sit through. Awful movie except for the Ann Miller scenes. I thank the very lovely Funny Face for introducing me to the impeccable Kay Thompson.
Last edited by Michael on Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zedz
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#19 Post by zedz » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:45 pm

Michael wrote: zedz wrote that it can put you on a high that lasts all day and it still does to me every time I watch it - a high with a strange brew of happiness and melancholy that lasts for days and sometimes weeks.
Actually, I think I was referring to The Band Wagon, but the same applies to Meet Me in St Louis. I'd argue that The Band Wagon has more than a few great numbers, too. In fact, I'd argue that it has a few of the greatest numbers ever committed to celluloid ("Shine on my Shoes", "Dancing in the Dark" - the transition from walking to dancing is one of my all-time favourite movie moments - and the "Girl Hunt" ballet - surely the apotheosis of this problematic form). And I like the Faust build-up part of the plot, but there you go. In the first half, I also appreciate how the key relationship issue (can Fred get along with Cyd) is matched by the casting. At first, there does seem to be a mismatch of chemistry between the two stars, and it's only really resolved when they dance together in the park and she shows herself to be a perfect partner.

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#20 Post by Narshty » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:01 pm

The Band Wagon has its moments, I find, but not too many. There's elements of grace and energy within the film but as a whole there's something missing. It's hard to care for any of the people - almost all the characters are workaholics and there's no real attempt to ingratiate them to an audience (aside from the performers' sheer talent). But I can barely remember anything from the film, and I only saw it a couple of years ago. It's throwaway material done with panache.

Meet Me in St. Louis, on the other hand, flows from one emotional shade to the next seamlessly. It's a virtuoso work and I have to agree with Michael that, try as I might, I can't find any real fault with it.

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Michael
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#21 Post by Michael » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:47 pm

I'm quite overdosed on Hollywood musicals lately. Been evaluating/revaluating a whole variety of musical movies for two weeks now - Berkeley, Donen, Minnelli, Fosse, Sandrich, and Wise are some of the directors I explored. Some were great - Meet Me in St. Louis, Top Hat, The Band Wagon, Singin' in the Rain, All That Jazz, For Me and My Gal. Some were ok - An American in Paris, It's Always Fair Weather, Summer Stock, Funny Face (sorry David). Some were nauseating - Gigi, West Side Story (despite the gorgeous photography), The Sound of Music. And oh, Easter Parade was a torture to sit through as well. There were some other ones too.

And now coming back to St. Louis, it's FAR from being a "corny drag". There's so much visual richness and psychological/emotional complexities to explore in this film. If I was teaching a film appreciation/studies class, this is THE musical movie I'd teach in a heartbeat. And all the musical numberes I've sat through for two weeks, nothing could beat Judy's Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas. It left me trembling so much. Next time I watch the film, I will make sure to rent an oxygen tank to get myself through this amazingly stirring scene fully composed. :D

If you want the "corniest drag" of a musical, then don't look further than Summer Stock. Thank god for the little "skip" button on my remote control so I can revisit the three incredible Judy numbers instead of dragging through the cornfield.

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#22 Post by Lino » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:22 pm

Michael wrote:I'm quite overdosed on Hollywood musicals lately. Been evaluating/revaluating a whole variety of musical movies for two weeks now - Berkeley
On that note, maybe it's time for you to check out Warner's incredible Busby Berkeley Collection. You will never look at a musical in quite the same way afterwards, I promise you.

Panda
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#23 Post by Panda » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:55 pm

Yes, Yes, "Meet Me in St. Louis" is indeed all that has been written here.

I am quite familiar with the film from numerous TV showings and now your incessant ranting (or is that raving) has driven me to order the film from the recent sale. A mere $13.02 from DD DVD. It has arrived today.

If the restoration is as good as you suggest, I'll be very happy.

Panda

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Michael
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#24 Post by Michael » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:55 pm

If the restoration is as good as you suggest, I'll be very happy.
No need to worry about that. Warners treatment of Meet Me in St. Louis is worth more than Liz's sapphire. PRICELESS! And I hope you enjoy the movie as much I am these days when I find myself longing to spin the disc again and again. I'm its tootsie-wootsie now and always.

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Ivy Mike
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#25 Post by Ivy Mike » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:52 am

Stumbled upon this interesting article about the use of color in Meet Me in St. Louis.

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