Otto Preminger

[Greathinker]

What's the consensus like on The Man with the Golden Arm, film wise?

I'm Looking for more from this director after being knocked out by Laura and Angel Face.

[souvenir]

What's the consensus like on The Man with the Golden Arm, film wise?

I'm Looking for more from this director after being knocked out by Laura and Angel Face.

You might check out the other Preminger titles in the Fox Film Noir series - Whirlpool, Where the Sidewalk Ends, and Fallen Angel.

I think The Man with the Golden Arm is good, worth seeing for the Saul Bass opening titles, Elmer Bernstein's jazz score and Sinatra's performance. It hasn't aged very well though and the drug addict subject matter has been done so often and with more realism since then that the subject's power has mostly evaporated.

[Highway 61]

I'm a big fan of The Man With the Golden Arm for all the virtues Souvenir mentioned, but unlike him, I think the portrayal of drug addiction is still relevant. Yes, the film's age prohibits exploring seriously dark territory, but Preminger understood that crime and drug addiction are often symptoms of poverty, and the movie depicts this very strongly. In that sense, I think its take on drug addiction is more valuable than many contemporary films that are only interested in showing violence and depravity. That said, there's no question that the movie's power is hampered by some fifties corniness. The movie plays out on small, cheap sets, for instance, when it really needed to be shot on location.

[domino harvey]

I just watched Saint Joan, and really, if you haven't seen the film, nothing you've read can prepare you for Richard Widmark's performance. I love his work and his role is one of the craziest surprises thrown my way in some time. I thought Seberg was terrific, her childlike enthusiasm at suddenly being a movie star is a fascinating choice to channel in her portrayal of Joan-- and then the press and audiences crucified Preminger for utilizing it!

Also the VHS copy I watched had a "making of the film" period EPK-type thing that preceded the film and the narrator makes the bold claim that "None of the actors wore make-up except Richard Widmark for one scene"- cut to everyone wearing noticeable make-up for the entire film. Such a strange thing to lie about!

[manicsounds]

Also the VHS copy I watched had a "making of the film" period EPK-type thing that preceded the film and the narrator makes the bold claim that "None of the actors wore make-up except Richard Widmark for one scene"- cut to everyone wearing noticeable make-up for the entire film. Such a strange thing to lie about!

If this is the same making-of produced by LIFE, then it is partially on the Criterion Breathless disc

[domino harvey]

It is and let me tell you, I could have lived my life without hearing Jean Seberg scream when the flames hit her for real. At least in the actual movie they show mercy and loop that out... though the making-of narrator insisting that "Jean was ever the trooper and wanted to go right back and do another take but Mr. Preminger decided it wasn't worth risking" is so amazing for so many reasons.

[Jeff]

Has anyone read this yet?

[souvenir]

I have the book here, but haven't had a chance to read it yet. Here's Richard Schickel's NY Times book review:

[quote]Anatomy of a Director

By RICHARD SCHICKEL
Published: November 11, 2007

Otto Preminger (1905-86) had, for many of those who worked for him, some of the aspects of an angry eggplant — his bald head and stern face turning purple as he loomed over quaking actors or technicians on a movie set, snarling or screaming outrage at some generally imaginary defect in their work. In fact, he was rather more complicated — a civilized, upper-class Jewish émigré from Vienna, son of Emperor Franz Josef's chief legal defender; a political liberal; a man capable of courtly kindness and generosity to favored colleagues; a shrewd showman with a genius for manipulating the press; a producer who in the 1950s became one of the first great masters of independent (as opposed to studio system) production; and, finally, a cinematic stylist with a unique, if sometimes limiting, manner.

Still, as in the movies, legend trumps reality, and it is Otto the Ogre who dominates much of “Otto Preminger,â€

[Belmondo]

To hell with any idea that we must separate the man from his work and let art speak for itself. At some point I have a right to stand up and say this:

I don't like a bully. I especially don't like a man who bullies women. And, if you are a movie director, and this is the way you make your movies, then you may find yourself on a long, slow, downward spiral in which the conventional wisdom proves entirely correct in judging most of your early work to be pretty good and most of your later work to be pretty bad.

And, if there are exceptions, they may work against you. I thought "Fallen Angel" completely fell apart on second viewing and the nifty camera work was not nearly enough to rescue a story that clunks from one unlikely scene to one which proves even more unlikely. I am entirely prepared to credit Preminger for challenging the censors at every turn, and I will dilute my own argument by saying that I admire him and anyone else with enough balls to break the blacklist.

So, go ahead and remind me of the thousands of talented artists who were absolute bastards in their personal life, and go ahead and remind me that certain negative personality traits are (arguably) necessary in the creative process. I simply won't tolerate bullies and it's just that goddam simple.

[foggy eyes]

Although Hirsch's biography looks interesting, I'm going to wait for this particular tome. Fujiwara's book on Tourneur was great, and I imagine that he'll offer a more rigorous and balanced analysis of Preminger's technique than Hirsch appears to.

[mattkc]

I haven't read the book, but based on the way Hirsch talked about Preminger when he came to Chicago for a mini-retrospective (less than half what showed in NY), he doesn't have anything meaningful to say about Preminger's films, where he talks mostly just about gossip and the critical reception of his work. Still, it may be useful as a biography, but Fujiwara's book will undoubtedly be better.

In any case, Preminger's films are truly great. He's much more even than people ever give him credit for. My favorites for the time being are Advise and Consent, The Cardinal, and In Harm's Way, but so many of them are strong works of art. Skidoo, which got screened here, is actually pretty tremendous. Also, I've always thought Laura was overrated, one of his weakest in fact, while I find Fallen Angel a major step forward.

[Dylan]

Bonjour Tristesse is magnificent, and the DVD looks excellent.

I still have a lot to see by this director, like Laura, Anatomy of a Murder, Exodus, Man With The Golden Arm and Daisy Kenyon, but I think he should definitely get his own thread in the director's section (sevenarts has already laid out the groundwork for the first post in this thread, anyway).

[domino harvey]

He was the only director in my Alt AFI List to be named three times. Dylan, you still have some killer Premingers ahead of you!

[lubitsch]

I haven't read the book, but based on the way Hirsch talked about Preminger when he came to Chicago for a mini-retrospective (less than half what showed in NY), he doesn't have anything meaningful to say about Preminger's films, where he talks mostly just about gossip and the critical reception of his work. Still, it may be useful as a biography, but Fujiwara's book will undoubtedly be better.

Forget Schickel on Otto, agree with Craig wait for Chris Fujiwara.

Hirsch, not Schickel.
Might I kindly suggest to you both that you first read a book before you trash it ? I've read it and it is good. Its weaknesses are rather on the biography side because there are too few facts and not enough interviews for the earlier years. In evaluating the films and pointing out stylistic traits and discussing the acting he is quite good. Before you get excited about Fujiwara skip through his essay on sensesofcinema

The Tourneur book had already its share of academis rubbish when he begins to overanalyze fastly shot trash like APPOINTMENT IN HONDURAS missing a bit of common sense. This essay looks even worse using the same method of talking weak films into a "celebration of nothingness" and so on.

[mattkc]

Did I "trash" his book? You might find a lot to like in Hirsch's book. Personally, I like the Fujiwara essay a lot.

[Lemmy Caution]

Watched Bonjour Tristesse a few weeks back, and every element of the film -- dialogue, relationships, plot -- seemed completely false, except the Riviera itself. Very unnatural dialogue combined with poorly synced dubbing made some scenes nearly unwatchable.

Seberg's boyish charm wore off pretty quickly. Then I was just left with her poor acting. Seemed like Preminger couldn't decide whether to condemn or admire Niven as the playboy father ... maybe it was too similar to his own lifestyle.

[Dylan]

Watched Bonjour Tristesse a few weeks back, and every element of the film -- dialogue, relationships, plot -- seemed completely false, except the Riviera itself. Very unnatural dialogue combined with poorly synced dubbing made some scenes nearly unwatchable.

To me the primary themes of Bonjour Tristesse are artifice and isolation, and I felt Preminger's direction of the actors complimented the story and themes perfectly.

Also, wonderful title song and score, and the Saul Bass titles are some of his greatest ever.

[mattkc]

every element of the film -- dialogue, relationships, plot -- seemed completely false

That's why you see films? For the "dialogue, relationships, plot"?That's "every element" of cinema??

[Lemmy Caution]

every element of the film -- dialogue, relationships, plot -- seemed completely false

That's why you see films? For the "dialogue, relationships, plot"?That's "every element" of cinema??

Yawn.

Care to add anything constructive about Preminger or Bonjour Tristesse?

Have you seen Bonjour Tristesse?

Maybe you'd have been happier if I had added an "etc." I was just ranking the most egregious falsehoods in sin order. I've noticed that the book on which the film was based was written by an 18 year old French girl (in the mid-50's) which explains a lot to me.

Freddie King , consummate bluesman, liked to say that the lyrics were just there to get people to listen to the music. And for most films, plot, character and dialogue similarly lead one into the visual art and whatever philosophic statement might underlie a project. BT failed at that for me. Those who have a higher tolerance/appreciation for melodramas might well react differently.

As for the article, I think much of the first half is referring to what Preminger was trying to do, rather than what he accomplished. I agree that what is left is to watch the camera movements and compositions. Preminger is no slouch and knows how to construct/evoke a time and place. I was just hoping there was something more to bite into rather than just Postcards from the Riviera.

[mattkc]

whatever philosophic statement might underlie a project.

Now there's a yawn.

I don't really have anything to say about the film, a lot has already been said. The article Dylan linked to is excellent. I think this is clearly one of Preminger's major works. It's utterly devastating. Some of us just cared more about those "camera movements and compositions," which you so casually dismiss, than the Riviera.

All I was responding to, though, was your ludicrous remark that "plot, character, dialogue" were every element of the film.

[Jeff]

Just a friendly reminder to set your Tivos to record Skidoo on TCM at 2:00 A.M. Eastern Time tonight.

[Cold Bishop]

Just a friendly reminder to set your Tivos to record Skidoo on TCM at 2:00 A.M. Eastern Time tonight.

I expect to see decent bootlegs emerge of this soon for those of us without TCM...

[Dylan]

I'm hoping for a few clips of the restored version to show up on YouTube, as well (like the main titles...surely it has a good title sequence as most of Preminger's films do).

[Jeff]

It's pan-and-scan! WTF, TCM?

[justeleblanc]

It's pan-and-scan! WTF, TCM?

Sounds like they played my ebay bootleg version.