Chris, thanks for summarizing what I was trying to say in a much more concise fashion. I wasn't trying to argue the merits of aggregate movie ratings, just using it as a reference to what Chris is saying - this film is getting an unusual amount of praise considering what it is.cdnchris wrote:I haven't been paying attention to that site but every review I've come across have been perfect scores and absolute raves from established critics. I was shocked by some because not only were they praising the action but they were throwing around words like "masterpiece" and "work of art," which I haven't seen for a genre movie in a very long time.
Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
- mfunk9786
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
I've read that it's so bare-bones that a lot of the punch comes from the editing and the framing, which is certainly something very rare for "action" movies these days. So I can understand how it can enthusiasm a lot of people.
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
The film was storyboarded before a screenplay was written, so that makes sense.
- Mr Sausage
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
I imagine the critical response in this case is due to expectations. Going in with the expectation that this will match what the reviews are saying is a good way to be disappointed. Better to go in with the same expectations the reviewers themselves no doubt went in with: that this will blow a lot of shit up in the same way action films of the last decade blow shit up. Then there'll be a chance you'll actually have the same experience the reviewers did.
I still think The Road Warrior is one of the great car chase movies. If this current one is anywhere near the level of that one, I am going to be a very happy viewer.
I still think The Road Warrior is one of the great car chase movies. If this current one is anywhere near the level of that one, I am going to be a very happy viewer.
- jbeall
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
It's also worth reading what actual reviews are saying. (But I do agree with Sausage that going in with high expectations is the surest way to set oneself up for disappointment.) To wit: NY Times review
A.O. Scott wrote:Mr. Miller’s world has its rules. Viewers raised on the more baroque, digitally enabled forms of blockbuster spectacle are likely to admire the relative simplicity of “Fury Road,” while aficionados of the traditional slam-bang methods will revel in its coherence. Even in the most chaotic fights and collisions, everything makes sense. This is not a matter of realism — come on, now — but of imaginative discipline. And Mr. Miller demonstrates that great action filmmaking is not only a matter of physics but of ethics as well. There is cause and effect; there are choices and consequences.
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
I agree that The Road Warrior is a genre masterpiece. I just saw Fury Road. Is it on the same level? Basically, yes, but it's a different type of movie. The Road Warrior was an exercise in building tension through the mystery of the main character. Fury Road is definitely more of a blockbuster (it's also a million times louder!). However, it has a purity of genre that the other blockbusters don't have. In Fury Road there are no subplots. There are no comic relief characters. No witty dialogue. No backstory. No crazy kids with steel boomerangs. There is no "character development." Like I said, it's pure genre, pure road-mayhem-apocalypse porn. And my ears are still ringing.Mr Sausage wrote:I still think The Road Warrior is one of the great car chase movies. If this current one is anywhere near the level of that one, I am going to be a very happy viewer.
- PfR73
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
The Doogster wrote:There are no comic relief characters.
Uhhhh, did you SEE the guy with the flame-thrower guitar???
- kidc85
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
FURY ROAD is a real rollercoaster of a movie. So much so that the film literally doesn't stop to take a breather until a full hour has passed and although this makes the film undeniably thrilling I wonder whether this is at the expense of character development and a proper emotional connection. The film has a surprising approach to which characters live or die but the film's pace means that even the death of liked characters doesn't hit particularly hard (except one, for reasons I won't spoil). As an additional consequence of this, I also wonder how much replay value this film has as it is essentially one very, very long action chase sequence.
Having said that, I hope that these potential criticisms are revealing (I'm still not saying these are definite flaws as I can think of reasons why the film is like this). FURY ROAD is a big budget reboot of a twenty year old franchise by the director of HAPPY FEET 2. I would never dream of criticising these kinds of elements with most of FR's contemporaries because they don't even get the essentials right. FURY ROAD does. Really right, stunningly so in fact.
There's CGI but it's only there to complement the ferocious stunt work. The colour scheme is that horrible cliche of orange and blue, but it makes sense: the desert sears and the sky mocks the characters with the colour of pure water. There's shaky cam and fast cuts but never at the expense of comprehension. Most of the heroes are women but unlike others the film accepts the physical reality (they have real trouble defeating the men - they have to shoot, hit with large objects, or wrong-foot them off a moving vehicle) without being condescending. And damn, is this film thrilling. Thrilling not just in action terms, but also in terms of ideas and images: the tribe appear to have been styled by people who looked at Lynch's treatment of the Harkonnens and decided it wasn't grotesque enough, the War Boys attached to long poles so they can dive into adjacent vehicles, the grenade spears, the harem room, and (I won't spoil this either) the reason why Max is tied to the front of Nux's car... the list just goes on and on.
Caveats aside, in every other aspect believe the hype.
Having said that, I hope that these potential criticisms are revealing (I'm still not saying these are definite flaws as I can think of reasons why the film is like this). FURY ROAD is a big budget reboot of a twenty year old franchise by the director of HAPPY FEET 2. I would never dream of criticising these kinds of elements with most of FR's contemporaries because they don't even get the essentials right. FURY ROAD does. Really right, stunningly so in fact.
There's CGI but it's only there to complement the ferocious stunt work. The colour scheme is that horrible cliche of orange and blue, but it makes sense: the desert sears and the sky mocks the characters with the colour of pure water. There's shaky cam and fast cuts but never at the expense of comprehension. Most of the heroes are women but unlike others the film accepts the physical reality (they have real trouble defeating the men - they have to shoot, hit with large objects, or wrong-foot them off a moving vehicle) without being condescending. And damn, is this film thrilling. Thrilling not just in action terms, but also in terms of ideas and images: the tribe appear to have been styled by people who looked at Lynch's treatment of the Harkonnens and decided it wasn't grotesque enough, the War Boys attached to long poles so they can dive into adjacent vehicles, the grenade spears, the harem room, and (I won't spoil this either) the reason why Max is tied to the front of Nux's car... the list just goes on and on.
Caveats aside, in every other aspect believe the hype.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
A question for those who've seen it : I had an issue with the overall look of the movie, which seemed like it was shot and projected in 720p. For a very recent and not a small budget movie, definition was frequently average at best, and many shots looked as if they were digitally sharpened.
I'm wondering if it comes from the theater I've seen it in, or if that's part of the look of the movie. It's a minor nitpick, but it distracted me many times from how beautiful some shots are (but unfortunately, no matter how beautiful they are, they never last more than 3 sec).
I'm wondering if it comes from the theater I've seen it in, or if that's part of the look of the movie. It's a minor nitpick, but it distracted me many times from how beautiful some shots are (but unfortunately, no matter how beautiful they are, they never last more than 3 sec).
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
Or not. I thought this was okay, with occasional moments of novelty and a strong sense of forward momentum, but some of the specific claims being made on its behalf are not present in the film's evidence. I found the specific actions of characters and cars etc within the action to be frequently incomprehensible. It's easy to follow the general gist of the sequences, but the cross-cutting and editing shortcuts are omnipresent in many of the set pieces. I defy anyone to explain based on what we are shown how the main villain meets his end, for instance. Again, I can fill in the blanks, but it's all part of the film's somewhat suspect breathless pacing-- everything moves so quickly that the audience immediately glosses over the blips and skips. However, for what it is worth, the film is absolutely as loud loud loud as claimed! It will be interesting to monitor popular response to this from all the curious lookey-loos teased in by the critical response, because this is if nothing else one of the weirder mainstream films I've ever seen!Believe the hype.
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
Is this Michael Bay's Transformers incomprehensible? Or just normal incomprehensible? I find the former to be like trying to follow the plot of a Brakhage film.domino harvey wrote: I found the specific actions of characters and cars etc within the action to be frequently incomprehensible.
- mfunk9786
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
I'm wondering the same - whether it's the visual equivalent of Inherent Vice's plot, opening up and clarifying with subsequent viewings because so much is being thrown at you, or just a Bay-ish mess.
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
Ditto. It's technically impressive, but it's basically just noise.I found the specific actions of characters and cars etc within the action to be frequently incomprehensible.
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
Yeah, but he wasn't funny, just weird. Good comedy is based on character, not the wow-factor of some random dude playing an electric guitar/bass/flamethrower combo on the back of a truck. Anyway, whenever I saw him I kept wondering where they got the power from to run all those speakers!PfR73 wrote:The Doogster wrote:There are no comic relief characters.
Uhhhh, did you SEE the guy with the flame-thrower guitar???
The Road Warrior gave us five comic characters, all whom gave just the right amount of comedy at just the right time - the Gyro Captain, the Toadie, the mechanic and his dopey side-kick, and Syd Heylen's old warrior character. Take away those characters and the story would be very flat. Fury Road could have spent a few minutes giving us a glimpse of humour, just to take the edge off the unrelenting grimness of the story.
Exactly. When relatively minor characters like the Warrior Woman and the mechanic in The Road Warrior die, you feel something, because they've been set up properly. It's impossible to feel anything for any character in Fury Road because there's just nothing to the characters, and there are just so many of them (did they really need FIVE wives?). They exist solely to service the plot.kidc85 wrote:FURY ROAD is a real rollercoaster of a movie. So much so that the film literally doesn't stop to take a breather until a full hour has passed and although this makes the film undeniably thrilling I wonder whether this is at the expense of character development and a proper emotional connection. The film has a surprising approach to which characters live or die but the film's pace means that even the death of liked characters doesn't hit particularly hard (except one, for reasons I won't spoil). As an additional consequence of this, I also wonder how much replay value this film has as it is essentially one very, very long action chase sequence.
SpoilerShow
Even when one of the wives dies, you just don't feel anything.
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
Not quite in the same league as Road Warrior but in my opinion a fine film nonetheless. I thought the score was very good as well, sounding very much like Penderecki's Symphony 3 Passacaglia (spelling?) movement that was so prominently used in Shutter Island and Katyn and one other film whose title escapes me just now. There were some shots in the action scenes in the film that could have been clearer but I would by and large side with those critics who felt that Fury Road was choreographed well. Not as good as Road Warrior and some Hongkong martial arts films, mind, but still of a high standard. I'd like to see it again sometime to see just how well it will hold up but I found a great deal to like and admire in it. B+ for now.
- mfunk9786
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
Domino, what movie did you see? I was pretty amazed by the continuity and choreography, particularly after being steeled for confusion. Sure, it moves incredibly fast, but I always felt like the geography of who/what vehicle was where was pretty honest up until the very end. As for the villain, I think
Anyway, this was stunning action ballet all the way through, and it really exceeded even my loftiest expectations. I can't remember having this much fun with an action film since the last time I rewatched Terminator 2: Judgment Day.
SpoilerShow
he's only being kept alive by whatever is feeding to him in those tubes, and having them ripped off his face killed him instantly. Right? Or am I way off?
Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
I'm going to have to side with Domino on this one. There is no denying Miller's massive vision, and the film is absolutely stellar visually (effects, cinematography, production/costume design). The apocalyptic world on display is so readily tangible, and I couldn't help be completely want to be sucked in by its vortex for the next two hours.
But, the film is essentially one long action sequence, one that is often quite incomprehensible. It's amusing at first, especially given the inventiveness of the individual scenes, but the rapid, ADD-like editing becomes exhausting by the end, especially considering how barebones the story and characters are. (Hardy is so wasted, that there isn't really even a need for his character to be the same as the original Mad Max.)
But, the film is essentially one long action sequence, one that is often quite incomprehensible. It's amusing at first, especially given the inventiveness of the individual scenes, but the rapid, ADD-like editing becomes exhausting by the end, especially considering how barebones the story and characters are. (Hardy is so wasted, that there isn't really even a need for his character to be the same as the original Mad Max.)
- Galen Young
- Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:46 pm
Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
domino harvey wrote:I defy anyone to explain based on what we are shown how the main villain meets his end, for instance.
mfunk9786 wrote:SpoilerShowhe's only being kept alive by whatever is feeding to him in those tubes, and having them ripped off his face killed him instantly. Right? Or am I way off?
SpoilerShow
Looked clear that Furiosa hooked a spear on the Toecutter's mask and removing it kills him -- a nice flip from her giving a file to Max to remove his own mask earlier.
Didn't feel this at all, the audience I saw it with laughed a lot. Just about every major and minor character on screen had their own moments of comic relief, the same wicked sense of humor as evidenced in previous three films, here amped to eleven.The Doogster wrote:There are no comic relief characters.
Oh, what a day! What a lovely day!The Doogster wrote:No witty dialogue.
- kidc85
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:15 pm
Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
With regards to that character's death, the film almost sets it up that you're not meant to particularly care. Max lies about witnessing the death because he's playing a numbers game - he refuses to risk the lives of many to save one. Regardless of Furiosa being the driving force, having more lines and being more developed as a character, it's still very much Max's film. Max feels no real attachment to the people he's saving beyond a sense of justice and appeasing his own conscience. Countless people die but he/we can't stop to think about this, because so much more is at stake than just one, two, three, or even a dozen people's lives.The Doogster wrote:Exactly. When relatively minor characters like the Warrior Woman and the mechanic in The Road Warrior die, you feel something, because they've been set up properly. It's impossible to feel anything for any character in Fury Road because there's just nothing to the characters, and there are just so many of them (did they really need FIVE wives?). They exist solely to service the plot.It's very clinical. I suppose something had to give in a two-hour chase movie, and in this case it was character development and witty dialogue.SpoilerShowEven when one of the wives dies, you just don't feel anything.
Is the film as you said, an exercise in pure genre? It's a very straight-forward, honest film that doesn't have time for anything outside of action and a few central themes. There's something really notable about a film with male and female leads who have no sexual chemistry whatsoever. I'm still not sold on this valuation of the film - I am concerned that when I come to watch it again that too much has been trimmed from the film for it to sustain my interest for a second ride - but it's still a really brave approach.
- Roger Ryan
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
Not only did the image looked sharpened to a ridiculous degree at the screening I saw last night, but there was a constant juddering effect that looks like a frame-rate transfer problem. I recognized there are numerous shots that are sped-up for effect and everything is shot using a high shutter speed to eliminate motion blur, but even the few calmer scenes featuring slow pans of the landscape are jittery. It consistently had the look of a TV broadcast of a film that has been electronically time-compressed to fit it into a shorter time slot (you start getting the impression that frames are being dropped every second). I wonder if the theater I attended was doing this to fit in more screenings per day or if anyone else experienced this unappealing look?tenia wrote:A question for those who've seen it : I had an issue with the overall look of the movie, which seemed like it was shot and projected in 720p. For a very recent and not a small budget movie, definition was frequently average at best, and many shots looked as if they were digitally sharpened...
As to the film itself, MAD MAX: FURY ROAD was exactly what I thought it would be: two hours of illogical (yet, admittedly, still fun) action scenes that have all been digitally manipulated to the point that one might as well be watching a animated film. The art direction is fantastic, but that doesn't make up for a thin inconsequential story and no character development. As for epic fantasy battle films, I liked it quite a bit more than the last two HOBBIT movies, but I feel no compulsion to return for the inevitable second, third or fourth helping of this over the next decade.
Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
In the film's defense, the majority of the special effects were all practical and done on the spot (I'm trying to find a source for a specific percentage, but it has been well-documented that Miller was interested in doing as much as he could practically).Roger Ryan wrote:two hours of illogical (yet, admittedly, still fun) action scenes that have all been digitally manipulated to the point that one might as well be watching a animated film.
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- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:55 am
Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
This is not just an action film. There is plenty going on under the *ahem* bonnet.
I'm no good with words and stuff so here's a couple of nice succinct articles containing spoilers.
A brief overview of the symbolism.
http://art-eater.com/2015/05/spoilers-w ... -spoilers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The feminism angles.
http://m.hitfix.com/harpy/7-ways-mad-ma ... vie-sexism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No technical problems at my showing. It looked magnificent. Beautifully composed and edited.
I'm no good with words and stuff so here's a couple of nice succinct articles containing spoilers.
A brief overview of the symbolism.
http://art-eater.com/2015/05/spoilers-w ... -spoilers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The feminism angles.
http://m.hitfix.com/harpy/7-ways-mad-ma ... vie-sexism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No technical problems at my showing. It looked magnificent. Beautifully composed and edited.
- lacritfan
- Life is one big kevyip
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
Well, hope the Men's Rights Activists are happy, they boycotted so Pitch Perfect 2's 70M beats MM:FR's 44M. Wait, does that mean they ARE happy?
- mfunk9786
- Under Chris' Protection
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Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
If I ever met someone who boycotted this movie I would set them on fire with my double flame guitar
- whaleallright
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 12:56 am
Re: Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015)
I noticed this too; not just the obviously expressive speed-of-motion adjustments in action scenes, which are also a big part of The Road Warrior, but a variety of seeming frame-rate shifts and stuttering movements—which looked to me like dropped frames—in relatively sedate moments. I honestly couldn't say whether this is an artifact of Miller's post-production tweaking (he says he altered frame rates, subtly and not-so-subtly, in many if not most of the shots) or an artifact of the compression of the DCP or of its projection. When the Blu-Ray comes out, maybe we'll have an answer.Not only did the image looked sharpened to a ridiculous degree at the screening I saw last night, but there was a constant juddering effect that looks like a frame-rate transfer problem. I recognized there are numerous shots that are sped-up for effect and everything is shot using a high shutter speed to eliminate motion blur, but even the few calmer scenes featuring slow pans of the landscape are jittery. It consistently had the look of a TV broadcast of a film that has been electronically time-compressed to fit it into a shorter time slot (you start getting the impression that frames are being dropped every second). I wonder if the theater I attended was doing this to fit in more screenings per day or if anyone else experienced this unappealing look?
On another note: I wish people would get beyond a simple practical/CGI dichotomy, since so much of the aesthetic of this film (and many other contemporary action films) is due to the integration of practical and computer-generated effects. For example CGI arguably makes some stuntwork possible by permitting the filmmakers to digitally remove riggings, ropes, and other devices used to keep stuntmen (and -women) out of harm's way. Similarly, CGI was used to make "real" crashes more graphically expressive, as when discrete bits of detritus (a deaths-head steering wheel, for example) hurtle at the camera after a car wipes out (some of these moments reminded me of the spectacular conclusion to Zabriskie Point).
I think it could be argued that the sheen generated by all the monkeying around in post-production (including the limited and sometimes monochromatic color palette)—itself possibly done in an effort to elide the differences between "real" and computer-generated elements in the frame—gives everything an unreality that undermines the effect of the stuntwork. Indeed the biggest complaint I have about the film—based on one viewing, anyway—is the color palette. This reduced palette is everywhere in cinema, from prestige films (J. Edgar was one of the ugliest instances) to blockbusters. I can't help but wish that Miller had brought the same level of inventiveness and inspiration to the colors as he did to the other elements of Fury Road's visual design.