The Conservative Closet

A subforum to discuss film culture and criticism both old and new, as well as memorializing public figures we've lost.
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Roscoe
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:40 pm
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The Conservative Closet

#1 Post by Roscoe » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:39 am

After watching that poor victim of oppression, the modestly talented multi-millionaire collector of classic cars and cultural appropriator of chimpanzee noises, poor old Tim Allen complain about a lack of tolerance in what he called "The People's Republic of California" I can only say that my interest in seeing TOY STORY 4 has taken a major hit.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#2 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:30 am

Ah yes, Tim Allen, that creative force behind the Toy Story films

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furbicide
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:52 am

Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#3 Post by furbicide » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:46 am

Roscoe wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:39 am
After watching that poor victim of oppression, the modestly talented multi-millionaire collector of classic cars and cultural appropriator of chimpanzee noises, poor old Tim Allen complain about a lack of tolerance in what he called "The People's Republic of California" I can only say that my interest in seeing TOY STORY 4 has taken a major hit.
I dunno, is it really such a conspiracy theory that conservatives generally aren’t welcome in Hollywood? I’m not saying it’s necessarily a bad thing, but I don’t find it hard to believe that someone like Allen would be ostracised.

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Brian C
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#4 Post by Brian C » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:33 am

I mean, not quite so ostracized that he can’t find lucrative voice-over work in one of the universe’s biggest animated franchise or have his own hit TV show.

But yes, I can believe that he might not get invited to some fun parties and stuff.

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Roscoe
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#5 Post by Roscoe » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:00 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:30 am
Ah yes, Tim Allen, that creative force behind the Toy Story films
LOL -- well yeah.

Nasir007
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am

Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#6 Post by Nasir007 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:09 am

furbicide wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:46 am
Roscoe wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:39 am
After watching that poor victim of oppression, the modestly talented multi-millionaire collector of classic cars and cultural appropriator of chimpanzee noises, poor old Tim Allen complain about a lack of tolerance in what he called "The People's Republic of California" I can only say that my interest in seeing TOY STORY 4 has taken a major hit.
I dunno, is it really such a conspiracy theory that conservatives generally aren’t welcome in Hollywood? I’m not saying it’s necessarily a bad thing, but I don’t find it hard to believe that someone like Allen would be ostracised.
I think in some ways conservatives in Hollywood bring it upon themselves. Better to shut up right then let it be known they are conservatives. Why destroy your career.

There are A TON of closet conservatives in Hollywood of course. Most have the good sense to keep their thoughts to themselves for the sake of their careers.

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knives
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#7 Post by knives » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:21 pm

To play devil's advocate switch conservative in your statement with gay.

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movielocke
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:44 am

Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#8 Post by movielocke » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:26 pm

Nasir007 wrote:
furbicide wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:46 am
Roscoe wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:39 am
After watching that poor victim of oppression, the modestly talented multi-millionaire collector of classic cars and cultural appropriator of chimpanzee noises, poor old Tim Allen complain about a lack of tolerance in what he called "The People's Republic of California" I can only say that my interest in seeing TOY STORY 4 has taken a major hit.
I dunno, is it really such a conspiracy theory that conservatives generally aren’t welcome in Hollywood? I’m not saying it’s necessarily a bad thing, but I don’t find it hard to believe that someone like Allen would be ostracised.
I think in some ways conservatives in Hollywood bring it upon themselves. Better to shut up right then let it be known they are conservatives. Why destroy your career.

There are A TON of closet conservatives in Hollywood of course. Most have the good sense to keep their thoughts to themselves for the sake of their careers.
There are plenty of conservatives in Hollywood, 20-33% I’d say, an enormous amount of them in leadership positions, producing and executives, what makes them upset and vocal is that they get deference, obsequious agreement and subservience from everyone in all parts of their life EXCEPT politics, so not getting what they believe is rightfully the natural state of things and what they deserve to get makes them very discomfited and angry. Some respond by simply confirming to political expectations, because the obsequious agreement et al then immediately follows (and that’s what they really want anyway), but a fair amount are devoted to the idea that they have never been wrong about anything at any time in their life and the world must bend to their point of view, and the world not doing so is an injury to them, ala Allen.

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Lost Highway
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#9 Post by Lost Highway » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:52 pm

knives wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:21 pm
To play devil's advocate switch conservative in your statement with gay.
Gays in Hollywood bring it upon themselves ? You may want to rethink that.

There are thousands of gays working on Hollywood films, who are happily out of the closet.

Nasir007
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#10 Post by Nasir007 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:36 pm

Yeah. I would say the only downside to being gay in Hollywood is for men who want to be "leading men". I don't think we have still had a bona fide leading man who is openly gay (though of course there have been in the past by they were closeted) but none that was openly gay and accepted by the masses.

But apart from that, in Hollywood itself, I daresay today it is more acceptable to be gay than conservative.

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swo17
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#11 Post by swo17 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:40 pm

OK, then pretend the statement was made in the 1950s

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Roscoe
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#12 Post by Roscoe » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:50 pm

Poor old Tim Allen and others like him, finding out first hand what it's like to live in a world where they feel unwelcome and unwanted, just like all the gay men and women those Republicans have systematically and openly oppressed all those years.

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Lost Highway
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#13 Post by Lost Highway » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:52 pm

Nasir007 wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:36 pm
Yeah. I would say the only downside to being gay in Hollywood is for men who want to be "leading men". I don't think we have still had a bona fide leading man who is openly gay (though of course there have been in the past by they were closeted) but none that was openly gay and accepted by the masses.

But apart from that, in Hollywood itself, I daresay today it is more acceptable to be gay than conservative.
I worked at DreamWorks where there were gays, liberals and conservatives, being professional, working together like people at most large places of work. In fact it was the first place where I, a gay liberal, got to know Christian fundamentalists. You are right that being a gay lead actor is still difficult, but even that is getting better.

Luke Evans isn’t quite A-List but he’s got movie star looks, he gets to play heterosexual characters and he dates male supermodels and nobody seems that bothered. Not long ago the same was true for female stars and now we have the likes of Kristen Stewart, Ellen Page and Ruby Rose. Being a conservative leading man seems to be not much of a problem either, it never harmed the careers of Bruce Willis or Clint Eastwood.

I believe as movie stars are becoming less important because the big films get promoted more and more on the back of superhero characters and franchises, this will become less and less of an issue.
Last edited by Lost Highway on Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Jack Kubrick
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#14 Post by Jack Kubrick » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:02 pm

The bigger conservative stars in Hollywood seemed to be more moderate than perceived acceptation. Arnold governorship in California was that of a Rockefeller Republican, Stallone is surprisingly pro gun control, Bruno is an atheist, Eastwood has always been more libertarian leaning than Fox News conservative, as with Vince Vaughn. Out of all the out in the open conservatives I can't think of many prominent A-listers who are openly social conservatives except for Jon Vought, who is a has-been in 2019.

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Lost Highway
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#15 Post by Lost Highway » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:08 pm

Jack Kubrick wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:02 pm
The bigger conservative stars in Hollywood seemed to be more moderate than perceived acceptation. Arnold governorship in California was that of a Rockefeller Republican, Stallone is surprisingly pro gun control, Bruno is an atheist, Eastwood has always been more libertarian leaning than Fox News conservative, as with Vince Vaughn. Out of all the out in the open conservatives I can't think of many prominent A-listers who are openly social conservatives except for Jon Vought, who is a has-been in 2019.
Scientologists hold socially conservative views on everything from homosexuality to psychology, but I suppose they know when to shut up. Their careers suffer no harm despite being in a toxic, abusive cult.

Nasir007
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#16 Post by Nasir007 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:12 pm

Lost Highway wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:52 pm
Nasir007 wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:36 pm
Yeah. I would say the only downside to being gay in Hollywood is for men who want to be "leading men". I don't think we have still had a bona fide leading man who is openly gay (though of course there have been in the past by they were closeted) but none that was openly gay and accepted by the masses.

But apart from that, in Hollywood itself, I daresay today it is more acceptable to be gay than conservative.
I worked at DreamWorks where there were gays, liberals and conservatives, being professional, working together like people at most large places of work. In fact it was the first place where I, a gay liberal, got to know Christian fundamentalists. You are right that being a gay lead actor is still difficult, but even that is getting better. Luke Evans isn’t quite A-List but he’s dates male supermodels, he’s got movie star looks and he gets to play heterosexual characters and nobody seems that bothered. Not long ago the same was true for female stars and now we have the likes of Kristen Stewart, Ellen Page and Ruby Rose. Being a conservative leading man seems to be not much of a problem either, it never harmed the careers of Bruce Willis or Clint Eastwood.

I believe as movie stars are becoming less important because the big films get promoted more and more on the back of superhero characters and franchises, this will become less and less of an issue.
I was definitely thinking of Evans. Fantastic leading man material right there. Great looks, tall, well built, good voice and above all good actor. I was sure he was going to be a leading man but hasn't really landed anything major save for his supporting role in Hobbit. He tried being a leading man with Dracula but that movie was absolutely horrendous.

I hope he gets a chance again.

Stewart is great yes. Bonafide A lister and she really showed the world she was a magnificent actress with her work with Assayas and Reichart. I think it is good to have her enter the mainstream again with Charlie's Angels.
Last edited by Nasir007 on Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nasir007
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#17 Post by Nasir007 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:18 pm

Jack Kubrick wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:02 pm
The bigger conservative stars in Hollywood seemed to be more moderate than perceived acceptation. Arnold governorship in California was that of a Rockefeller Republican, Stallone is surprisingly pro-gun control, Bruno is an atheist, Eastwood has always been more libertarian leaning than Fox News conservative, as with Vince Vaughn. Out of all the out in the open conservatives, I can't think of many prominent A-listers who are openly social conservatives except for Jon Vought, who is a has-been in 2019.
Chris Pratt is a conservative too I think.

Be that as it may, things have changed, from even 8 years ago. The polarization today, especially in the past 4 years has reached its maximum intensity in the history of the nation. The bubbles today are extreme (I live and work in NJ and swear to god have never seen a maga hat in my life, that is how much of a bubble I live in). The hatred for other political ideologies today is visceral and soul-consuming.

Eastwood survives because he has an Olympian reputation. And his work has consistently been humanist. But even he is perceived as a racist bigot in many quarters. A lot of my friends hate him and think he's no different than a maga person. You can see the Eastwood hasn't been immune to the political fallout in the country too. His star has fallen with the critics and with the academy. His films don't get that much acclaim anymore. And are not in the awards conversation that much anymore. But they still make money. And play well in middle America. So he still gets studios and stars.

But if he was less successful or did not have the career he has had - he would be driven out with pitchforks.

The world has dramatically changed in the past 4 years. America has changed. Hollywood has changed.

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Lost Highway
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Re: The Conservative Closet

#18 Post by Lost Highway » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:31 pm

Eastwood’s recent films have been rather poor. I agree though that if a Hollywood star were to wear a MAGA hat, their career would take a massive hit.

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Big Ben
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Re: The Conservative Closet

#19 Post by Big Ben » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:45 pm

Eastwood is Pro-Gay, Pro Abortion, Pro-Gun Control and so on and so forth. He's uh, more of a cranky, old as dirt libertarian than anything else. He's certainly conservative but he's not Franklin Graham or something. Eastwood is beloved by the Native Americans here in Montana, because of films like Outlaw Josey Wales.

To be fair being a Republican now means something far different than it did back in the fifties. I don't think someone like Jimmy Stewart or Sinatra would have liked Trump all that much.

Jack Kubrick
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#20 Post by Jack Kubrick » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:50 pm

Lost Highway wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:08 pm
Jack Kubrick wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:02 pm
The bigger conservative stars in Hollywood seemed to be more moderate than perceived acceptation. Arnold governorship in California was that of a Rockefeller Republican, Stallone is surprisingly pro gun control, Bruno is an atheist, Eastwood has always been more libertarian leaning than Fox News conservative, as with Vince Vaughn. Out of all the out in the open conservatives I can't think of many prominent A-listers who are openly social conservatives except for Jon Vought, who is a has-been in 2019.
Scientologists hold socially conservative views on everything from homosexuality to psychology, but I suppose they know when to shut up. Their careers suffer no harm despite being in a toxic, abusive cult.
An exception to the rule. I was strictly speaking about an American brand of Christianity that is heavily indebted to reactionary politics, which isn't seen in Hollywood biggest conservative stars. There are some conservatives working behind the scenes that I'm sure have a more culturally conservative position but haven't openly spoken about their beliefs because of what you said above, fear of career determination.

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Lost Highway
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Re: Toy Story 4 (Josh Cooley, 2019)

#21 Post by Lost Highway » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:23 pm

Jack Kubrick wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:50 pm
Lost Highway wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:08 pm
Jack Kubrick wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:02 pm
The bigger conservative stars in Hollywood seemed to be more moderate than perceived acceptation. Arnold governorship in California was that of a Rockefeller Republican, Stallone is surprisingly pro gun control, Bruno is an atheist, Eastwood has always been more libertarian leaning than Fox News conservative, as with Vince Vaughn. Out of all the out in the open conservatives I can't think of many prominent A-listers who are openly social conservatives except for Jon Vought, who is a has-been in 2019.
Scientologists hold socially conservative views on everything from homosexuality to psychology, but I suppose they know when to shut up. Their careers suffer no harm despite being in a toxic, abusive cult.
An exception to the rule. I was strictly speaking about an American brand of Christianity that is heavily indebted to reactionary politics, which isn't seen in Hollywood biggest conservative stars. There are some conservatives working behind the scenes that I'm sure have a more culturally conservative position but haven't openly spoken about their beliefs because of what you said above, fear of career determination.
When it comes to behind the scenes, if you are very talented in your field, you will get hired now matter what your beliefs as long as they aren’t aligned with anything illegal. As long as everybody keeps it professional and civil, nobody loses their job.

Nasir007
Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am

Re: The Conservative Closet

#22 Post by Nasir007 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:27 pm

The parties have shifted also.

GOP has shifted rightward. Democrats have shifted both rightward and leftward. Obama said he would be a Republican as recently as the 80s.

So a lot of change has happened in the last decade or so but especially in the last 4 years.

I would say forget Hollywood, even in tech companies or media companies, being openly conservative would be devastating for your career.

But then again, I see movies like The Dark Knight, Incredibles, Braveheart, LOTR which conservatives call some of the best conservative movies in Hollywood and they are still celebrated movie in Hollywood. So what do I know.

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Roscoe
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Re: The Conservative Closet

#23 Post by Roscoe » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:47 pm

Well, again -- I'm not losing too much sleep over the plight of conservative Republicans being fearful of losing their jobs because they're conservative Republicans when so many of them are A-OK with gay people losing their jobs because they're gay.

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Re: The Conservative Closet

#24 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:52 pm

Big Ben wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:45 pm
Eastwood is Pro-Gay, Pro Abortion, Pro-Gun Control and so on and so forth. He's uh, more of a cranky, old as dirt libertarian than anything else. He's certainly conservative but he's not Franklin Graham or something. Eastwood is beloved by the Native Americans here in Montana, because of films like Outlaw Josey Wales.

To be fair being a Republican now means something far different than it did back in the fifties. I don't think someone like Jimmy Stewart or Sinatra would have liked Trump all that much.
Clint's definitely not racist, he's certainly stuck in old ways but he's certainly earned that. Tom Arnold, who I'll admit is a sketchy source, said Clint went up to him recently and said he hated Trump.

Frank certainly did.

I wonder what John Milius makes of Trump. He wasn't a fan of GWB and said Rush Limbaugh should be drawn and quartered, so maybe that says enough of what he thinks of where the GOP is presently.

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HJackson
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Re: The Conservative Closet

#25 Post by HJackson » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:07 pm

Roscoe wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:47 pm
Well, again -- I'm not losing too much sleep over the plight of conservative Republicans being fearful of losing their jobs because they're conservative Republicans when so many of them are A-OK with gay people losing their jobs because they're gay.
Meanwhile, in the real world, the vast majority of Republicans (83%) don't think employers should be allowed to fire people for their sexual orientation. I imagine, once you account for the dimwit doctrinaire libertarians who believe in complete freedom of contract against all reason, the number of Republicans who "are A-OK with gay people losing their jobs because they're gay" is incredibly small and, in any case, quite far from "so many of them".

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