Stan Lee (1922-2018)

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Gregory
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:07 pm

Re: Stan Lee (1922-2018)

#51 Post by Gregory » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:24 pm

DarkImbecile wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:43 pm
Gregory wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:32 pm
Or in Maher's case, he "grew up" and made his career in entertainment by acting in the likes of Pizza Man and Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death
Without engaging in the question of whether he’s right or wrong about comic books, it’s a bad argument to say he can’t criticize them because he acted in garbage movies while trying to survive in the entertainment industry. Also, seems like a hell of an overstatement to say he “made his career” in those as if that’s what he’s known for.
I didn't say he "can't criticize them," but I'll never be able take him seriously having seen some of his movies and after all the dumb things he's said in his long career and his unjustified opinion of himself as the smartest person in the room.
I was talking about the work that started his career, which isn't the same thing as what he's most famous for.
He would not have been able to land Politically Incorrect on Comedy Central if he didn't already have some kind of career in comedy (overlooking that what he'd done was never actually funny). Comedy Central was pretty hard up for real talent in those early days, and they slotted him into the comedian with real ideas, who isn't afraid to tell it like it is kind of persona, in 1993. Pizza Man was from 1991, and it takes time to develop a series and get it on the air, so Comedy Central did this for Maher immediately after Pizza Man, which was his only real star vehicle at the time, in his thirties. And when they were ramping up Politically Incorrect into a viable series, I remember them showing Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death repeatedly in early-morning time slots to fill what they hadn't sold for infomercials (which were funnier anyway). I don't think his standup chops are any better than his acting career, and in his talk show host guise he (and his writers) have mistaken smug soundbites for insightful political comedy for decades now, so his comments about books that combine words and images dumbing down our culture are self-defeating at best.
Last edited by Gregory on Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr Sausage
Not PETA approved
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
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Re: Stan Lee (1922-2018)

#52 Post by Mr Sausage » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:43 pm

flyonthewall2983 wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:56 pm
There's nothing new about it, what Maher is saying is nothing different than what people have been saying about comic books since the beginning, except to apply it to a president who didn't really win over the majority.
You don't actually suppose I'm claiming no one has ever looked down on people for reading comic books, do you? New is short hand for currently popular.

Anyway, Maher isn't really criticizing comics. They're just a convenient avenue to criticize what he supposes to be the breakdown of rational, adult society, a large part of which involves adults being unable to differentiate products meant for children from products meant for adults.

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Black Hat
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:34 pm
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Re: Stan Lee (1922-2018)

#53 Post by Black Hat » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:57 pm

I don't see how adult fandom of comics/Star Wars is a problem in our culture. I don't know much about either, but I suspect the films and comics of today are far more intelligent than their predecessors. The most recent Star Wars film for example stunned me with how smart it was compared to the old ones. The conversation we should be having as a society is the effect technology is having. To name a few, it's created an extreme level of neediness for attention that is impossible to satisfy. This leads to intensified loneliness and that loneliness leads to nostalgia which too much of can be the enemy of progress. Facebook for example likes to present itself as a tool to connect all of us in the present to create a better future, but what it actually does is keep us attached to our past, not passively but actively with features such as 'memories', thus keeping what otherwise would be fading memories crystal clear and thus much more difficult to move forward from. The goal of these companies is not only to exploit design flaws of the human condition, but expand them and there has been shockingly little conversation about it.

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Big Ben
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm
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Re: Stan Lee (1922-2018)

#54 Post by Big Ben » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:10 pm

Mahr says lots of all the time though. I don't really care much what he has to say here because it's not exactly a new commentary and him adding to the pile doesn't really change much. I don't disagree with his statement about indifference to products though. Certain elements within fandom are certainly a problem but Star Wars in and of itself isn't the only real issue. One might transpose the violent outbursts to another activity, say sports and you have a similar, tribalistic reaction. The openly racist and sexist stuff surrounding the Star Wars fanbase is just atrocious and the harassment has driven one of the actresses off social media period. However I feel it's slightly disingenuous to assume this hostility only exists in media like Star Wars and even more disingenuous to assume it hasn't all been exacerbated by online presence.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Stan Lee (1922-2018)

#55 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:51 pm

Mr Sausage wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:43 pm
You don't actually suppose I'm claiming no one has ever looked down on people for reading comic books, do you? New is short hand for currently popular.

Anyway, Maher isn't really criticizing comics. They're just a convenient avenue to criticize what he supposes to be the breakdown of rational, adult society, a large part of which involves adults being unable to differentiate products meant for children from products meant for adults.
I didn't mean it as a way of attacking what you said, but to point out this isn't necessarily a new argument but in different clothing this time because of the political context.

If anything, it's proof how much Maher hates children.


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Polybius
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Re: Stan Lee (1922-2018)

#57 Post by Polybius » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:44 am

His self image has always been that he's some sort of intrepid intellectual enfant terrible but he's actually a lot closer to a real life Cliff Clavin than anything else.


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Polybius
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Re: Stan Lee (1922-2018)

#59 Post by Polybius » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:54 pm

As if his repeat showcasing of that vile harpy Coulter wasn't bad enough.

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flyonthewall2983
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Re: Stan Lee (1922-2018)

#60 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:49 am

Veering off-topic here but I wonder if there are people on the right who feel about certain pundits the way a lot of us feel about Maher. I get this feeling a lot will put up a united front which is admirable in a very twisted way.


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