2010s Dynamic Consensus Lists

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mfunk9786
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#26 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:37 pm

swo17 wrote:
mfunk9786 wrote:I know you put "Change since *date*" after each list, but would it be possible to add a "Last Updated" date as well? It'd be a lot easier to be able to tell what's what with each list if both dates were there.
It already automatically says at the bottom of the post when it was that I last updated it. Are you looking for something more than this?
I know that each time you update the post you don't update all the lists though - or do you?

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#27 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:47 pm

I update all the lists every time. For years prior to 2012, I'm showing the cumulative change over the whole past year (technically, "change since Mar 04, 2012" could also read "change from Mar 04, 2012 to Oct 07, 2012") as opposed to just the past two weeks, because I think that's a more interesting statistic. Does anyone disagree?

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mfunk9786
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#28 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:40 pm

That makes sense, thanks for the clarification. I always assumed the earlier dates meant that those lists hadn't been updated between then and the most recent time they were updated, which was mysterious to me.

Can I ask one more question? What the numbers in parentheses signify? Sorry if this is a redundancy from a past question.

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domino harvey
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#29 Post by domino harvey » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:16 pm

Number of lists the film appears on

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mfunk9786
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#30 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:06 pm

So how does something like this, for example, work rank-wise? Again, I apologize if I'm being dense

16 Bernie
17 Holy Motors (4) +2

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domino harvey
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#31 Post by domino harvey » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:30 pm

Number in parenthesis is number of people who voted, plus number is difference in votes since last tally (ie in this case two more lists featured Holy Motors, for four total. Bernie, like the two films above it, placed on five lists)

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swo17
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#32 Post by swo17 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:56 pm

The "+2" actually means it moved up two places in rank since the last tally. If people prefer, I could change it to represent how many more or fewer lists the film appears on.

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knives
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#33 Post by knives » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:59 pm

I prefer how it is now, but then that's how I've always read it.

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mfunk9786
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#34 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:01 pm

Thanks for the explanation, Domino. That's exactly where my confusion stemmed from - I read it as meaning that Bernie was only on one list but somehow ranked above one on four lists. I'm outta questions.

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wigwam
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#35 Post by wigwam » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:22 pm

Holy Motors and Avengers are moving in the right directions! \:D/

thx swo

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TMDaines
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#36 Post by TMDaines » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:55 pm

Isn't Beginners a 2010 film?

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#37 Post by swo17 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:59 pm

I generally don't count festival screenings when assigning a year to each film. For Beginners, I'm going with the NY/LA release listed here.

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#38 Post by swo17 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:50 pm

First post updated

The next update (on the 31st) will be the last for the year, at which point I'll do the following:

1. Any list of less than 10 films in the 2012 thread will no longer be counted.
2. Any top 10 list in the 2012 thread that has not been updated on or after Oct 26, 2012 will only be partially counted. (I'll basically count one film for every month we were through the year when you last updated.)
3. I will "freeze" the results for 2011 and prior years. All this means is that all subsequent updates will then show the change in position from year-end 2012. I won't freeze the 2012 results until after the Oscars in February.

If you want to make sure your 2012 list counts for this next update, make sure it includes 10 films and has been edited recently. If you haven't updated in months but your list stands as is, either edit your post to indicate this or PM me. There is of course no rush to do any of this. If your list doesn't qualify to be fully counted now but you edit it in a few months to comply, I'll count it again at that time.

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domino harvey
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#39 Post by domino harvey » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:53 pm

How are you counting films' years? Because Wuthering Heights only just got a theatrical release a few months ago and you have it counted as a 2011 release? I thought we went by American commercial releases

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#40 Post by knives » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:54 pm

I believe he is counting by international wide releases.

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#41 Post by swo17 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:55 pm

Generally, first non-festival release in a country of origin (per IMDb). Wuthering Heights is a UK film and started its theatrical run there in November of 2011.

Everyone is of course welcome to list this or any other film in their top 10 for whatever year they choose.

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#42 Post by swo17 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:46 pm

First post updated. Results for 2012 are now "frozen," i.e. any subsequent changes throughout the year will be displayed as the change since 2/24/13.

Also, just so people know, if you list a film in your 2013 top 10 and make a point of saying that you don't much care for it, I'm not including that film in my tabulations.

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#43 Post by HistoryProf » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:17 am

I just wanted to say THANKS SWO! This is a great thread and the work is greatly appreciated. I enjoy going back through the older lists periodically and seeing what I've been missing.

I do apologize for this, but for some reason I'm still not understanding the following:
swo17 wrote:The "+2" actually means it moved up two places in rank since the last tally. If people prefer, I could change it to represent how many more or fewer lists the film appears on.
I get the change in ranking, but can you clarify what the parenthetical number is precisely? Is it number of lists or first place votes? Why does Silver Linings Playbook not have a number but is ranked 7th? Does that mean it is ALSO on 15 lists, but was ranked relatively lower than Looper on them?

06 Looper (15)
07 Silver Linings Playbook
08 Lincoln (14)
swo17 wrote:Films are ranked based on how many lists they currently appear on, with ties broken based on the relative placement of films within individual lists.
In other words, being ranked 10th or 1st is worth a "point" for most films, unless there are two or more films that are on the same number of lists, correct? how do you quantify the tie breaker? 10 points for first, 9 for 2nd kind of thing? If you do that, shouldn't that be the system across the board? i.e. a film that's on 8 lists but has 7 #1 votes should rank higher than a film on 11 lists but isn't higher than 8th on any of them? Or is that just too complicated? :lol:

Just trying to wrap my brain around the math and curious about why the relative placement on our lists doesn't appear to matter except as a tie breaker. It seems to me that it should, especially since i'm sure that i'm not alone in carefully considering where to slot the ten that do make the list (and now I feel silly for going back and, say, swapping #3 and #7 in 2010 when it doesn't actually make a difference for the dynamic list). Especially with something like Holy Motors or the like that many people may not have had a chance to see, but is ranked VERY highly on the lists it is on vs. something that was widely seen and makes more appearances in the 6-10 range. The way i'm reading this, then, is that it's more a list of "good movies that have been seen the most" than "Highest rated films." By all means, I am NOT trying to make for more work or anything....i've just never really looked at the numbers on these and am kind of thinking out loud here.

Cheers!
Last edited by HistoryProf on Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:43 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#44 Post by knives » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:34 am

It's on the same number as Looper.

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swo17
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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#45 Post by swo17 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:20 pm

First post updated.
HistoryProf wrote:can you clarify what the parenthetical number is precisely? Is it number of lists or first place votes? Why does Silver Linings Playbook not have a number but is ranked 7th? Does that mean it is ALSO on 15 lists, but was ranked relatively lower than Looper on them?

06 Looper (15)
07 Silver Linings Playbook
08 Lincoln (14)
Sorry, just seeing your questions now. The number in parentheses is how many lists the film appears on. To convey as much information as I can with as few numbers as possible, I don't list this information if it's the same as for the film above it. So yes, in this example, SLP appears on 15 lists, just like Looper.
HistoryProf wrote:
swo17 wrote:Films are ranked based on how many lists they currently appear on, with ties broken based on the relative placement of films within individual lists.
In other words, being ranked 10th or 1st is worth a "point" for most films, unless there are two or more films that are on the same number of lists, correct? how do you quantify the tie breaker? 10 points for first, 9 for 2nd kind of thing? If you do that, shouldn't that be the system across the board? i.e. a film that's on 8 lists but has 7 #1 votes should rank higher than a film on 11 lists but isn't higher than 8th on any of them? Or is that just too complicated? :lol:

Just trying to wrap my brain around the math and curious about why the relative placement on our lists doesn't appear to matter except as a tie breaker. It seems to me that it should, especially since i'm sure that i'm not alone in carefully considering where to slot the ten that do make the list (and now I feel silly for going back and, say, swapping #3 and #7 in 2010 when it doesn't actually make a difference for the dynamic list). Especially with something like Holy Motors or the like that many people may not have had a chance to see, but is ranked VERY highly on the lists it is on vs. something that was widely seen and makes more appearances in the 6-10 range. The way i'm reading this, then, is that it's more a list of "good movies that have been seen the most" than "Highest rated films." By all means, I am NOT trying to make for more work or anything....i've just never really looked at the numbers on these and am kind of thinking out loud here.
My spreadsheet essentially does two calculations for each film, one that just ranks them all based on number of votes and one that figures a score for each film where a 1st place ranking is worth 10 points, 2nd place 9 points, etc. The second calculation is what I use to break ties between all the films that show up on the same number of lists.

As for your suggestion that the total score be used to rank films instead of number of votes, that is something that I could easily change, though I kind of like now how there's a balance between general popularity and relative placement on individual lists. I'm not sure that ranking by score is quite the ideal measure that you're thinking. Bear in mind that a film like, say, Lincoln is getting votes in the 2012 thread mostly from U.S.-based members but also in the 2013 thread from some international members. It might show up now as #1 on a 2013 list but that's not necessarily going to mean the same thing as it appearing as #1 on a 2012 list. Given the dynamic nature of these lists though, this will all work itself out after a few years, as will the temporary lack of availability of films like Holy Motors. Speaking of which, that film is currently ranked #4 for 2012. If we ranked films based on score, it would be #3. I doubt this change would compel anyone to see the film for the first time, or prompt any detractors to reevaluate it.

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#46 Post by HistoryProf » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:45 pm

Good enough for me! Thanks for explaining that. I just had never really looked at the fine print and as I said - was primarily thinking out loud. You do a great service with this all and I love referring back to it from time to time. I was looking at the older ones this morning and thinking I may need to update them. The one thing this exchange has emphasized to me is to not give up going back to older lists and updating them. I tend to move on about now once I've seen most of 2012's output I wanted to see and forget about the list. I'll try to be more vigilant moving forward knowing that you do keep tabs on updates even years later.

Do you just scan the last edited date on each post? i.e. eyeball all our entries and manually enter them in your spreadsheet? That's a commendable commitment!

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#47 Post by swo17 » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:54 pm

HistoryProf wrote:Do you just scan the last edited date on each post? i.e. eyeball all our entries and manually enter them in your spreadsheet? That's a commendable commitment!
For the older years, I just do a "find" for any post that mentions 2013 and narrow down the lists that have been updated. For newer years I have to look more closely. I do manually enter any changes I find into a spreadsheet but then the spreadsheet does the rest for me.

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#48 Post by FerdinandGriffon » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:50 am

Swo, how do you count votes for portmanteau or anthology films? If I put one film from an anthology in my top ten and the rest in other categories, is that vote for the first film null and void?

I feel silly voting for anthologies as wholes but I will if that's how your system works.

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#49 Post by swo17 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:57 am

That's not how my system works. I just count everything you list in your top 10. I ignore anything going on below that. If you list a segment from an anthology as a film, I treat it like a completely separate film.

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Re: Dynamic Consensus Lists

#50 Post by swo17 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:19 pm

First post updated. I'm probably going to be out of town two weeks from now, so the next update may not be for another month.

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