7 The Lady from Shanghai

Discuss releases by Indicator and the films on them.

Moderator: MichaelB

Message
Author
stroszeck
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:42 pm

#1 Post by stroszeck » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:21 am

I just got through watching this one on DVD for the first time and it brought back some great memories. There's a featurette with Peter Bogdanovich in which he says that after the producers butchered the film down to 90 minutes from its original intended running time of 2 1/2 hours, Welles wrote a memo, similar to the Touch of Evil one. I wonder, given that Touch of Evil was re-done to Welles' vision, any chance we could see this one expanded and remastered ever? Does the print still exist?

User avatar
pzman84
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:05 pm

#2 Post by pzman84 » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:22 pm

I think restoration is highly unlikely. The footage is probably lost. My understanding of the memo in question is it mainly talks about the score. I did like Shanghai but the music was horrible. It was just the one song repeated over and over. It was a total hack job. If they were to rescore it, I wouldn't be too opposed, as long as the composer was not a total hack.

As for the footage, it is known Harry Cohn said, after seeing the unedited cut, stated "I will pay $1 million to whoever can tell me what the hell that was about." Given the abstractness, the hope would be to find the cut Welles made. If we just find a couple reels of outtakes, it probably would not be possible to get a "director's cut," given Welles is dead. You would run into the problem you got on Touch of Evil, no definite final cut. Even Walter Murch, who edited the film, admits the 1998 version is not definite. If only Universal would have invited Welles to play around with the footage in 1975, when it was found. It would have saved us a lot of problems...

User avatar
J Wilson
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:26 am
Contact:

#3 Post by J Wilson » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:42 am

There was never even a finished score to the film; Welles' memo detailed changes made against his temp score, which included music by George Antheil as well as some Mexican music. Anyone working on the film would have to go by Welles' suggestions for music from that memo, rather than any hard and fast choices he had made. A reconstruction would be speculative at best, though it would be interesting to see the picture scored differently, since Roemheld's score is so cheesy and repetitive.

David Ehrenstein
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:30 pm
Contact:

#4 Post by David Ehrenstein » Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:27 pm

I actually like Roemheld's score.

Welles' cut is lot forever, but Lady From Shanghai remains fabulous and fascinating -- Marienbad avant la lettre.

And I too object to the revised Touch of Evil.

User avatar
Kirkinson
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:34 am
Location: Portland, OR

#5 Post by Kirkinson » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:06 pm

pzman84 wrote:If only Universal would have invited Welles to play around with the footage in 1975, when it was found. It would have saved us a lot of problems...
True, but it would have caused other problems of its own. Even if Welles had recut it himself and produced a "definitive" director's cut, it's likely we would still have a passionate group of people who preferred the original release version. Moreover, if Welles fooled around with it in 1975 it would be the film that the Orson Welles of 1975 would have made, which could be a very different film than what the Welles of 1958 would have made.

User avatar
Antoine Doinel
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Contact:

#6 Post by Antoine Doinel » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:56 pm

Speaking of The Lady From Shanghai Wong Kar-Wai's next movie is a remake of this film.....with Nicole Kidman and Rachel Weisz....uh.......

User avatar
kinjitsu
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:39 pm
Location: Uffa!

#7 Post by kinjitsu » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:33 pm

Antoine Doinel wrote:Speaking of The Lady From Shanghai Wong Kar-Wai's next movie is a remake of this film.....with Nicole Kidman and Rachel Weisz....uh.......
Er, not a remake!

From a LondonNet interview:
What can you tell us about Lady From Shanghai, the film you're doing with Nicole Kidman?

Well, we're working on the script. We have ideas. Normally I will build a story around one character and I think it will be interesting to have Nicole Kidman play it as a woman who claims she came from Shanghai, and it's very mysterious.

User avatar
Antoine Doinel
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Contact:

#8 Post by Antoine Doinel » Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:43 pm

Kinjitsu wrote:From a LondonNet interview:
What can you tell us about Lady From Shanghai, the film you're doing with Nicole Kidman?

Well, we're working on the script. We have ideas. Normally I will build a story around one character and I think it will be interesting to have Nicole Kidman play it as a woman who claims she came from Shanghai, and it's very mysterious.
Well that quote isn't definitive one way or the other. I find it distressing that Norah Jones has been cast now as well...can she even act?

Anonymous

#9 Post by Anonymous » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:25 pm

davidhare wrote:If anyone can get a filmic performance form Norah (or Nick for that matter) Wong can.
Even if it means filming for 4 years untill they accidentally give him one. :lol:

User avatar
The Fanciful Norwegian
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:24 pm
Location: Teegeeack

#10 Post by The Fanciful Norwegian » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:46 pm

Antoine Doinel wrote:Well that quote isn't definitive one way or the other. I find it distressing that Norah Jones has been cast now as well...can she even act?
Norah Jones is in Wong's other U.S. project, not The Lady from Shanghai.

User avatar
kinjitsu
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:39 pm
Location: Uffa!

#11 Post by kinjitsu » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:53 am

Antoine Doinel wrote:Well that quote isn't definitive one way or the other.
Well it's very unlikely that he would remake Welles, and the quote gives little indication of his doing otherwise.

Here's more:

From cinemastrikesback.com:
... a slight mention of his next movie The Lady from Shanghai, which he says he choose for the name and it won't be a literal remake of the original...
From Faces.com
Oscar-winning actress Nicole Kidman will play a role in The Lady From Shanghai - The story will be set in Shanghai during the 1930s and is said to start filming in February. Japanese actor Takeshi Kitano has also been mentioned as the candidate for playing the villain and Chang Shuping - art director and costume designer for most of Wong's films, is reported to have already gone to the United States to work on Kidman's character.
From The China Daily:
The story is inspired by a lady in danger and mixes love with espionage. The movie will be produced in Shanghai but features an international cast.
From shanghaiist.com:
This film, which is Wong's first English language film, is set in Shanghai during the 1930's.
Nicole will play a Shanghai woman who has a dangerous love affair with a spy.

David Ehrenstein
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:30 pm
Contact:

#12 Post by David Ehrenstein » Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:02 pm

Hmm. Sounds like a variation on Merchant-Ivory's The White Countess -- which was shot by Chris Doyle.

User avatar
Ovader
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:56 am
Location: Canada

Re: The Lady From Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1947)

#13 Post by Ovader » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:37 am

According to The Digital Bits The Lady From Shanghai will receive a new restoration in 2010 and may get a re-release at some point though nothing is scheduled as of now.

User avatar
Ben Cheshire
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:01 am

Re: The Lady From Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1947)

#14 Post by Ben Cheshire » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:57 am

That is excellent news. Wellesnet must be going apeshit.

I wonder if any additional footage has been found... Another Welles picture massively chopped by studio.

User avatar
Ovader
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:56 am
Location: Canada

Re: The Lady From Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1947)

#15 Post by Ovader » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:07 am

Ben Cheshire wrote:That is excellent news. Wellesnet must be going apeshit.
They seem to be quite calm but these are early days so once the restoration and the inevitable DVD release are near then I predict more posts. They are actually more vocal about an early draft of the screenplay amongst the other scripts.

karmajuice
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:02 am

Re: The Lady From Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1947)

#16 Post by karmajuice » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:48 pm

I watched this for the second time a few weeks ago after buying the DVD, and I've just finished going through the scant extra features. I'm one who takes the unpopular opinion of preferring the pulpy Welles works to his more literary films. Well, I say that. Really, my favorite Welles film is almost always the one I've watched most recently. There's something about Mr. Arakdin and The Lady from Shanghai that just reaches into me; they're not merely entertaining films, they affect me on several levels which extend far beyond the matter of their plots.
Although: revisiting The Lady from Shanghai, the plot was not nearly so incomprehensible as I remember it being. It's bizarre, to be sure, but it made a surprising amount of sense. In fact the plot is downright fascinating and remains (mostly) plausible throughout, I feel, unlike Mr. Arkadin which is maybe best viewed like Rohmer suggested: as a fable.
Also, Orson's accent, while not great by any means, is much better than I remembered it being. I always wondered why Welles had trouble managing accents in some roles, whether it had something to do with the register of his voice. It's especially baffling when you consider how he flawlessly dubs so many roles in his other films. Sometimes that makes me wonder if it's intentional -- but if so, why?

What can I say about this picture which hasn't been said? First off, I love that you have to accept the fact early on that virtually everything you hear throughout the entire film is a lie. I love Grisby, in particular the ever-present globules of sweat clinging to his face. "Tarrrrget practice." Hayworth is, well, just about the most beautiful thing ever filmed. Her performance is excellent and some of her moments, often just a certain gesture or inflection, really resonate with me. The tracking shot which follows O'Hara down the walk after he fires the pistol, with all the people running out of the bars (possibly a crane shot, since it's elevated, but it moves laterally). The vertiginous shot atop the cliff overlooking the water as O'Hara and Grisby chat in Acapulco. The pure avant-garde daring of the climax.
I also like how sunny the film often is. It's one of the most deceptively bright noir films.

Welles did write a memo regarding this film, although it was considerably shorter than the Touch of Evil memo and focused on the sound design which seemed to be his major point of contention. I imagine a reconstruction of sorts would be possible with this film, a la Touch of Evil, given that the memo suggests very particular changes. Granted, this would not involve the inclusion of the substantial missing footage, which must be lost, but it might bring the film closer to its original intentions. Of course it would need to be presented like Mr. Arkadin or Touch of Evil -- that is, with its original theatrical release version -- but I think it would be a worthwhile endeavor, were it financially feasible.

For all its compromises, I still love this film. Aside from The Trial it strikes me as Welles's darkest and most unrelenting film, almost misanthropic in its depictions -- yet, like The Trial, there's still an essential humanity present. There always is, with Welles. If he ever seems misanthropic, it is always because he is concerned with human innocence and the challenges it faces.

User avatar
Der Spieler
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:05 am

Re: The Lady From Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1947)

#17 Post by Der Spieler » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:27 pm

Small question here:

Anybody knows if the region 1 and region 2 releases have the same transfer?

User avatar
johncarvill
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:05 am
Location: Manchester, UK
Contact:

Re: The Lady From Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1947)

#18 Post by johncarvill » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:57 am

Agree with pretty much all of karmajuice's post above. particularly re. how great Rita Hayworth looked in the film. I always thought it'd be interesting to read a comparison between her role (and performance) in this film, with that of 'Gilda'. Has anyone seen this discussed anywhere?

Interesting point about preferring the 'pulpy' Welles films. I'm in 2 minds about that but I can tell you something: my teenage nephew was visiting last year, and asked to see 'Citaizen Kane', so we watched that and he loved it (I am a proud uncle!), then of course, have you got any more like that? Well, tall order! Ok how about 'Lady From Shanghai'? So, we watched that, and he said he liked it even more than Kane. So there you go.

Being Irish, I was of course highly sensitive to Welles's accent, first time I saw the film. But I only found it distracting right at the start (during the park 'rescue') and then just tuned it out.

User avatar
BenCheshire
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:19 am
Contact:

Re: The Lady From Shanghai (Orson Welles, 1947)

#19 Post by BenCheshire » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:04 pm

Re being irish, I'm Australian and I'm just glad he didn't try mine. I always cringe when he does accents, but I'm otherwise pro-Welles. Shanghai is the worst. See Macbeth for hokey Scottish accents, chimes is set in England, but I don't know what Orson is doing. It's a brogue, definitely, but probably one of those cross breeds, like an English-cross-hokum.

User avatar
Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: Indicator

#20 Post by Drucker » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:47 pm

Love to buy Lady From Shanghai a fourth time on blu-ray.

User avatar
rapta
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:04 pm
Location: Hants, UK

Re: Indicator

#21 Post by rapta » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:45 pm

Seems they're expecting that one to be popular: their listing for The Lady from Shanghai has since been revised to say "Limited Dual Format Edition of 5,000 copies", rather than 3000.

Probably wise of them to do that - will no doubt be a popular one.

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: Indicator

#22 Post by swo17 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:50 pm

Drucker wrote:Love to buy Lady From Shanghai a fourth time on blu-ray.
Was there anything wrong with the transfer on the last one that came out? I can't remember.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Indicator

#23 Post by domino harvey » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:52 pm

rapta wrote:Seems they're expecting that one to be popular: their listing for The Lady from Shanghai has since been revised to say "Limited Dual Format Edition of 5,000 copies", rather than 3000.

Probably wise of them to do that - will no doubt be a popular one.
You're confused, the 5000 figure is actually how many future Blu-ray editions this film will garner

User avatar
Drucker
Your Future our Drucker
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

Re: Indicator

#24 Post by Drucker » Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:58 pm

swo17 wrote:
Drucker wrote:Love to buy Lady From Shanghai a fourth time on blu-ray.
Was there anything wrong with the transfer on the last one that came out? I can't remember.
Nope but it had no extras. (Specifically: the Mill Creek edition)

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: Indicator

#25 Post by domino harvey » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:02 pm

I'm still fine with my original TCM Blu. Frankly, I grow tired of people pouring over the most minute tech differences. Obviously if you don't have any editions already, Inducator's will no doubt be the one to pick up

Post Reply