Sorry, but there is no comparison whatsoever between the sublime, earthy precision of Alonso, the hollow fraudery of Serra or the whimsical fascism of Weerasethakul. Bresson and Antonioni are far closer to Alonso in spirit, although he is not (yet) close to equaling either of them (of course).foggy eyes wrote:TheDoman wrote: Also, do check out Albert Serra's sublime Honour of the Knights, Jia's Still Life, everything by Apichatpong Weerasethakul, etc. Alonso's Liverpool is going to play at LFF, so I'd suggest making an effort to see it there (I certainly will be).
Lisandro Alonso on DVD
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Re:
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Woops, you're right - I often get my "sublime, earthy precision" and "whimsical fascism" confused!
While we're making snap judgments, I reckon he's more like Zavattini (in spirit) than Bresson or Antonioni...
While we're making snap judgments, I reckon he's more like Zavattini (in spirit) than Bresson or Antonioni...
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- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:04 am
Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Was that the snap judgement that made you think Serra was anything other than a talentless chancer or the one where you managed to overlook Weeraserthakul's politics? I wonder, if a member of the Burmese elite made a similar series of films would the liberal 'intelligentsia' take to them so blindly...
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Haha. I would be happy to see such amazing cinema coming out of Burma. I hope to see some Serra soon because such a silly rejection only makes me think there's something to it. I forgot by the way how impoverished Bresson and Antonioni were. I bet they wish they were part of the elite of Burma.
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
heredity4me - I gave an explanation of the problems with Birdsong in the Birdsong thread if you can bothered to look. I have also yet to see anyone defend the film with anything approaching specificity, eg. Foggy Eyes' justification that the actors have such 'strange' bodies (ie. one of them is fat and one of them is old) that he could watch them roll around in the desert all day, or referencing Bazin just because the editing is slack and aimless - these simply do not cut it. If anything is silly, it is buying into the cult of Serra simply because he wears sunglasses indoors and deals with religious subject matter (ironically perceived as 'radical' in context of the western media's prevailing liberal-athiest bais).
Regarding AW, again this is not the thread to go into detail, but the issue of his class bias and politics is very clearcut. That he is a member of the priviledged classes, whilst indisputable, is not itself the issue (Visconti was an aristocrat); the problem, rather, is that he is unremittingly uninterested in looking beyond the prejudices of his class. AW has consistently presented a propagandistic view of Thailand in which the working classes / oppressed ethnic majority literally do not exist - the censorship battles over his most recent film (and his childish provocations against some minor societal taboos) being a smokescreen for / ironic counterpoint to his actual political agena. AW is a supporter of the fascistic PAD movement, the militant wing of the Thai 'Democrat' party (further right than the US Republican party), which is seeking to take the vote away from the rural poor. A movement which was formed in 2005 to protest the use of taxpayers money on social welfare programs - and consider that Thailand is a country with an 8% rate of tax. A movement which provoked an overt coup in 2006, which committed economic terrorism in Nov/Dec last year and which has now, along with the army, etc, bullied the population into accepting, once again, a junta government - a junta which is now beginning to persecute any genuine voices of dissent (do a search on Giles Ji Ungpakorn).
The problem, unfortunately, lies in the superficial way in which modern western viewers engage with this kind of cinema. You appreciate AW's aesthetic abilities, which I am not seeking to deny. You like the fact that his films deal with middle-class issues - relationship problems, the impact of modern technology, etc - because these are subjects you can relate to. You have very little understanding of the underlying politics nor, let's be honest, much interest... Nevertheless, to relate his work to Alonso, who has shown a singleminded dedication to depicting the lives, struggles and experiences of the underclass, is frankly offensive.
Regarding AW, again this is not the thread to go into detail, but the issue of his class bias and politics is very clearcut. That he is a member of the priviledged classes, whilst indisputable, is not itself the issue (Visconti was an aristocrat); the problem, rather, is that he is unremittingly uninterested in looking beyond the prejudices of his class. AW has consistently presented a propagandistic view of Thailand in which the working classes / oppressed ethnic majority literally do not exist - the censorship battles over his most recent film (and his childish provocations against some minor societal taboos) being a smokescreen for / ironic counterpoint to his actual political agena. AW is a supporter of the fascistic PAD movement, the militant wing of the Thai 'Democrat' party (further right than the US Republican party), which is seeking to take the vote away from the rural poor. A movement which was formed in 2005 to protest the use of taxpayers money on social welfare programs - and consider that Thailand is a country with an 8% rate of tax. A movement which provoked an overt coup in 2006, which committed economic terrorism in Nov/Dec last year and which has now, along with the army, etc, bullied the population into accepting, once again, a junta government - a junta which is now beginning to persecute any genuine voices of dissent (do a search on Giles Ji Ungpakorn).
The problem, unfortunately, lies in the superficial way in which modern western viewers engage with this kind of cinema. You appreciate AW's aesthetic abilities, which I am not seeking to deny. You like the fact that his films deal with middle-class issues - relationship problems, the impact of modern technology, etc - because these are subjects you can relate to. You have very little understanding of the underlying politics nor, let's be honest, much interest... Nevertheless, to relate his work to Alonso, who has shown a singleminded dedication to depicting the lives, struggles and experiences of the underclass, is frankly offensive.
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Nothing, this is a bit unfair - you write that Birdsong "reveals nothing about humanity / the world / life in general" but then complain that I am not being been specific enough... Seriously?! I thought I wrote enough in that thread to justify why I like the film, but perhaps not - would you like another 1000 words or something (perhaps with a section on how citing the notion of the 'Bazinian real' implicitly refers to more than than slack editing)?
I doubt I (or anybody else) is going to change your mind, but feel free to continue venting your spleen...
I doubt I (or anybody else) is going to change your mind, but feel free to continue venting your spleen...
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
After reading through your past argument on AW I've decided he must have hit your puppy with his car when you were younger. That's the only reason for your distorted view on him. Your arguments on AW are very similar to you Saura (edit: Serra...my apologies) summation... "hollow".
Last edited by heredity4me on Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Distorted and hollow in what way? (btw, I haven't said a word about Saura).
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
This is probably old news, but the MALBA DVD set of La libertad, Los muertos & Fantasma is now available from an Argentian seller on eBay (just search for Lisandro Alonso). Bear in mind that it's not cheap, though: $100/£70 (+ shipping)! Resourceful types will have already obtained these films through other means, but I reckon it's still worth picking up.
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Given that most will have Los Muertos already, $100 for 132m of non-anamorphic interlaced telecine is truly daylight robbery. Presumably this costs a fraction of the price if actually bought in Buenos Aires
The really sad thing is that Liverpool has been selling so damn badly (thus no Alono Redux on the horizon). Perhaps there have been a few deals since, but Variety reported only The Netherlands, Greece and Poland by the end of Cannes. The vast majority of distributors truly have no taste or balls these days.
The really sad thing is that Liverpool has been selling so damn badly (thus no Alono Redux on the horizon). Perhaps there have been a few deals since, but Variety reported only The Netherlands, Greece and Poland by the end of Cannes. The vast majority of distributors truly have no taste or balls these days.
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Might we actually be agreeing on something here?Nothing wrote:Given that most will have Los Muertos already, $100 for 132m of non-anamorphic interlaced telecine is truly daylight robbery.
I think I heard somewhere that Argentinian DVDs can be vastly overpriced, though, so it's possible that the seller's fee is accurate (no matter how hard that is to believe!).
- tout va bien
- Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:19 pm
- Location: buenos aires, argentina
Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
hi, searching for the rozier's box set from france, i found this thread...and i think that i can help.
argentinian DVDs are, actually, overpriced...but i think (and know) that $100 is just too much. i know it because i used to work in a dvd store. i'm still in touch with the distribuitors, maybe i can l go back in time and return to the old job if someone is interested, of course...
about the films...i strong recommend la libertad. i think it's his best, so far. liverpool doesn't have a dvd release, yet.
and about this comment:
argentinian DVDs are, actually, overpriced...but i think (and know) that $100 is just too much. i know it because i used to work in a dvd store. i'm still in touch with the distribuitors, maybe i can l go back in time and return to the old job if someone is interested, of course...
about the films...i strong recommend la libertad. i think it's his best, so far. liverpool doesn't have a dvd release, yet.
and about this comment:
i think that lines fit better with pedro costa's most recent work.Nevertheless, to relate his work to Alonso, who has shown a singleminded dedication to depicting the lives, struggles and experiences of the underclass
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
So it is nothing more than daylight robbery after all.
Thanks for stopping by with the info!
Thanks for stopping by with the info!
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
- lord patchogue
- Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:02 am
Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Just came across with this. anyone to comment on the quality?
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
At that price, will stick with my screener. Slightly disappointed by Liverpool, tbh, but still a high-class piece of work.
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
I watched Los muertos and didn't like it; it's devoid of any enthusiasm towards the material and without personality.
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Train your eyes and ears.james wrote:I watched Los muertos and didn't like it; it's devoid of any enthusiasm towards the material and without personality.
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Train your eyes and ears so you can tell the difference between profoundly minimalistic cinema along the lines of Claire Denis or Béla Tarr and cinema which makes dishonest attempts at profoundness and all the while transforms into a series of poorly shot scenes that prove Lisandro Alonso to be no other than a voiceless director who is too concerned with his actor carrying out specific actions than he is with following through with any sort of theme.foggy eyes wrote:Train your eyes and ears.james wrote:I watched Los muertos and didn't like it; it's devoid of any enthusiasm towards the material and without personality.
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Seriously, take another look at Alonso.
Could this specious (and inaccurate) reasoning not be applied to Tarr or Denis too?james wrote:too concerned with his actor carrying out specific actions than he is with following through with any sort of theme.
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Okay, maybe Alonso follows through with the theme of man and nature as one, but it's a theme that doesn't hold much weight. As for Tarr and Denis, their movies evoke emotional resonance and thematic depth even if they are filmed specific actions. They have a distinctive style; Alonso feels like the exact opposite of an auteur. I apologize for being overly critical — as I didn't find the film terrible, just bad — but I was expecting some reasoning and I got a very snide response. You've given me no reason to take another look at the movie, even if I wasn't going to anyway.foggy eyes wrote:Seriously, take another look at Alonso.
Could this specious (and inaccurate) reasoning not be applied to Tarr or Denis too?james wrote:too concerned with his actor carrying out specific actions than he is with following through with any sort of theme.
- foggy eyes
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:58 am
- Location: UK
Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
I'm surprised you expected anything less after that first post!james wrote:I was expecting some reasoning and I got a very snide response.
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Re: Lisandro Alonso on DVD
Okay, I've come to the decision that, even though I didn't like the movie, perhaps a theater viewing would have made it a little better, because the Facets DVD is terrible, with a windowboxed image. I apologize if my original post came off as overly dismissive, but I really feel that way based on the viewing that I had. I do hope you'll still share your thoughts on the movie, if you possibly could. I'd be interested in hearing them to try and understand why you personally liked the movie, as a differing opinion.foggy eyes wrote:I'm surprised you expected anything less after that first post!james wrote:I was expecting some reasoning and I got a very snide response.