The Tinto Brass Collection

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released from Arrow and the films on them.

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mfunk9786
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The Tinto Brass Collection

#1 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:38 am

antnield wrote:Image
That cover for All Ladies Do It is just begging to be a poster that they sell in boardwalk record stores

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RossyG
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Re: Arrow Films

#2 Post by RossyG » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:10 pm

mfunk9786 wrote:That cover for All Ladies Do It is just begging to be a poster that they sell in boardwalk record stores
Although it might strike a bum note. ;)

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mfunk9786
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Re: Arrow Films

#3 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:18 pm

I expected it to be the butt of a lot of jokes around here, but I think it's the tits. Wait

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matrixschmatrix
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Re: Arrow Films

#4 Post by matrixschmatrix » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:39 pm

It's definitely pretty cheeky, but I don't think it's behind their usual standard

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mfunk9786
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Re: Arrow Films

#5 Post by mfunk9786 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:45 pm

I wonder what thumbnails they'll use for the back side of the slip. Or does Arrow usually leave that bare?

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kidc85
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Re: Arrow Films

#6 Post by kidc85 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:49 am

Tinto Brass films always seem to take up at least 1/3 of any store's world cinema collection but I've never bothered to watch any of them. Are they just for people made happy by nude foreign ladies or is there cinematic merit (even of the exploitation variety) to them as well? What is considered his best (and/or most representative)?

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knives
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Re: Arrow Films

#7 Post by knives » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:05 am

Depends on the film. I find The Howl to be a legit great film and Salon Kitty is arguably better than the Visconti film it is knocking off. Many of his films I've seen are basically just a series for gorgeously shot assholes, but there are a lot of diamonds here.
Last edited by knives on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Shrew
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Re: Arrow Films

#8 Post by Shrew » Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:14 am

When I lived in China, video stores selling not-quite-legal DVDs would often have a section of art house/foreign/Criterion/MoC stuff and a pretty high percentage was always Tinto Brass, a hell of a lot of Asian girls in lingerie, and some Victoria Secret's fashion shows (plus some of Bertolucci's saucier efforts), which of course was all I ever saw anyone but me buy from that section.

Then outside the store there was a dude who tried to sell a CD wallet of "love films" that he pulled out from of the undercarriage of a nearby car. I think Tinto Brass sold more than that competition, so maybe there's something to it?

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tojoed
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Re: Arrow Films

#9 Post by tojoed » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:04 am

As they say up north, where there's muck there's Tinto Brass.

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Re: Arrow Films

#10 Post by MichaelB » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:05 am

Arrow has been distributing his films for years (I reviewed an Arrow DVD of All Ladies Do It circa 2000), so I imagine they're well aware of the size of Brass's UK fanbase. So it's a reasonably safe bet that this isn't a cautious toe in the water.

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Minkin
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Re: Arrow Films

#11 Post by Minkin » Thu May 16, 2013 7:11 pm

For those so inclined, you should probably avoid Arrow's upcoming Blu of the Tinto Brass film The Key. Here's the DVDBeaver review:

The Key: Wrong aspect ratio, Export version (Raro is Director's cut), missing interview from other editions.
I'd imagine that the choice for the Export version is to avoid a R18 rating though.

Also, here's the review for:
All Ladies Do It
I assume that the "outtakes" from the cult Epics edition are placed back into the film in the Arrow release. Anyone speak
on the colors for this film? Seems like another NOTLD blue filter? (DVDbeaver forgot to mention that there's a "featurette" with Tinto Brass on the Arrow edition)
EDIT: Svet didn't make mention of the featurette either, and the menu doesn't indicate its included. Unless its an Easter Egg, its not included on the disc.

Along with Score, Arrow isn't doing too well with their smut this year. Perhaps they should just stick to Horror films (UK seems too censor-crazed - or, more fairly, too restrictive on adult content - to be able to release many of these films uncut).
Last edited by Minkin on Sun May 19, 2013 8:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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TMDaines
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Re: Arrow Films

#12 Post by TMDaines » Thu May 16, 2013 7:49 pm

Regardless of whether this was the cause, our 18/R18 classification and sales restriction policies are so incredibly obsolete and outdated.

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Re: Arrow Films

#13 Post by Anthony Thorne » Thu May 16, 2013 10:20 pm

The muted palette seen for All Ladies Do It is in keeping with a lot of other Italian genre stuff from the period, and Eric Cotenas (who I recall knows his stuff) noted:

"As for the contrast, most of the Brass films shot by Silvano Ippoliti have that look."

I have the Cult Epics releases of each but will be throwing them in the bin for the new Arrow Releases, which to my eye, muted contrast and all, look much better/sharper/clearer compared to the dated transfers of the earlier releases. If I feel the urge to check out the extra director's cut material for The Key sometime there are the usual sites just a click away. Others may feel differently but I'm happy with what seems to be offered with each package, and oddly enough I think I prefer the tighter framing on The Key.

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tenia
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Re: Arrow Films

#14 Post by tenia » Fri May 17, 2013 1:20 am

Minkin wrote:The Key: Wrong aspect ratio.
I have a trouble with this, because when looking the review, Gary says "head-room is often clamped", and then, when looking at his infamous screencaps, you can see that there is, in fact, more information on the sides than what is lost in the top-part of the frame (especially if you compare to the Cult Epics framing, which has 0 more info on the top part).
As for the ITW, the PQ upgrade is sufficient to let me pass on the interview without too much regrets (though the lack of the DC would be more of a problem).
Minkin wrote:All Ladies Do It
Anyone speak on the colors for this film? Seems like another NOTLD blue filter?
I have no idea about what the movie should look like, but on the other end, it could be very simple to take this and use a dynamic contrast tool to get the look from the Cult Epics. But which one is correct ?

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Re: Arrow Films

#15 Post by MichaelB » Fri May 17, 2013 7:18 am

Since I've actually seen the new Tinto Brass BDs, I'll try and clear up some of the speculation and guesswork.

The BBFC: A red herring - they had no influence on the content of these discs, and didn't request any cuts. Indeed, both these BDs contain the longest versions of either film yet released in the UK (considerably longer in the case of All Ladies Do It).

The Key: This has clearly been cropped from 1.66:1, but looks surprisingly acceptable compositionally - Brass's fondness for zooms helps here, as the camera is rarely especially static. It's also a markedly longer cut than the one featured on the previous Arrow DVD, by about 46 seconds. Handily, since it's a dual-format release, I was able to run both the DVDs side by side, and found the following differences (NB: time refs are for the PAL DVDs, so won't match the BD):
SpoilerShow
circa 8:30 - slightly different editing to urination scene;
15:43 - additional shot of the splayed vulva of the woman on the table;
15:53 - zoom into a close-up of the woman's buttocks goes on for longer;
1:05:30 - shot of Teresa holding Laszlo's erection;
1:07:43 - shot of Teresa fondling Laszlo's unaroused genitals goes on for longer;
1:07:56 - close-up of Laszlo's genitals being fondled;
1:25:25 - the entire sequence with Laszlo's erection visibly protruding from his boxers
(multiple shots, including cutaways to Teresa);
1:20:53 - the shot of Laszlo going down on Teresa goes on for longer.
Based on accounts of the content of the Raro DVD, it looks to me as though this version omits the additional narrative detail (described as "a three minute sequence in which Finlay examines a piece of artwork and becomes dizzy followed by a short sequence where Sandrelli purchases a diary from a local shop") but does include a fair amount (possibly even all) of the additional sexually graphic material - very much including the rather unfortunate rubber phalluses that the Beaver review suggests aren't in this edition.

Another important difference is that the Italian dialogue in the English version now comes with subtitles - if I remember rightly, this wasn't true of the old Arrow DVD. (There are three subtitle tracks, one translating onscreen text and Italian dialogue for the English version, a second offering the above plus an English SDH transcription for the English version, and a third translating all the dialogue in the Italian version - there's a similar arrangement with All Ladies Do It). I'd be inclined to favour the English version, if only because Frank Finlay clearly dubbed his own voice, and it's more situationally appropriate (Finlay's British-born character speaks English with family members but Italian with others).

All Ladies Do It: I have more of a problem with the framing of this one - again, it should clearly be 1.66:1, and there are a couple of scenes that even in motion are clearly cropped at the top. However, in all other respects this is a vast improvement on Arrow's now ancient DVD. Even allowing for PAL adjustment, it's over seven minutes longer, and considerably ruder - I don't think there's any additional narrative material, but virtually every sex scene is very noticeably more graphic than before. The addition of the far more mellifluous Italian soundtrack also makes a big difference - the previous Arrow disc only had the terrible mid-Atlantic dub (also on the BD, but not recommended), and it's now obvious that virtually everyone was speaking Italian on set.

As for the markedly cooler grading, it's common to both versions and presumably intentional - The Key is described as a restoration, but I don't know if Brass was involved. (His cinematographer Silvano Ippoliti is now deceased).

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Re: Arrow Films

#16 Post by NABOB OF NOWHERE » Fri May 17, 2013 9:18 am

MichaelB wrote:Since I've actually seen the new Tinto Brass BDs, I'll try and clear up some of the speculation and guesswork.[
I trust your fellow passengers on the 7.24 out of Worthing enjoyed sharing your analysis.

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Minkin
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Re: Arrow Films

#17 Post by Minkin » Sun May 19, 2013 8:38 pm

Thanks for clearing some of that up MichaelB! Glad to see it wasn't a problem beyond Arrow's control (as with Score). Though I do wonder why Arrow chose to shorten some of the shots, or used a different print (it sounds like a sort of hybrid between the Director's cut and the Export cut).

Here's the Bluray.com review for All Ladies Do It. Svet highlights some of the framing issues, the video quality problems, and he ends with:
If this is the best All Ladies Do It can look at the moment, then I have to speculate that there are no suitable elements for a Blu-ray release
Unfortunately, unless its an easter egg, it looks like the "Featurette on the film with director Tinto Brass" is not included with the set (Arrow should update their site then).

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Re: Arrow Films

#18 Post by MichaelB » Mon May 20, 2013 1:46 am

Minkin wrote:Thanks for clearing some of that up MichaelB! Glad to see it wasn't a problem beyond Arrow's control (as with Score). Though I do wonder why Arrow chose to shorten some of the shots, or used a different print (it sounds like a sort of hybrid between the Director's cut and the Export cut).
Arrow didn't choose to shorten anything - that was the master that they were supplied with. It may well be the case, given its advertised status as a "restoration", that Brass himself decided to tweak the editing, leaving out the additional narrative scenes in the Raro cut but making it just as sexually explicit.
Here's the Bluray.com review for All Ladies Do It. Svet highlights some of the framing issues, the video quality problems, and he ends with:
If this is the best All Ladies Do It can look at the moment, then I have to speculate that there are no suitable elements for a Blu-ray release
I flagged up the framing issues to Arrow myself, but they told me that they were well aware of them, and had already complained to the rightsholder, whose attitude was "take it or leave it". And given that the new master did at least have the advantage of being uncut (so a huge advance over the DVD right there, along with the UK premiere of the original Italian soundtrack), they understandably chose to take it.

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tenia
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Re: Arrow Films

#19 Post by tenia » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:15 am

The 2 others Brass have been announced for quite some time now. I guess they might have been dropped at some point.

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Re: The Tinto Brass Collection

#20 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:16 am

Cheeky and Frivolous Lola are coming out in February - and the BBFC has just confirmed that both have been passed uncut.

For the record, 'Frivolous Lola' now runs 1:44:33 and 'Cheeky' is 1:30:32 - the running times of Arrow's old DVDs, after adjusting for PAL speedup, were 1:41:48 and 1:29:18.

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antnield
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Re: The Tinto Brass Collection

#21 Post by antnield » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:22 am

The Guardian looks at Cheeky and Frivolous Lola.

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Re: The Tinto Brass Collection

#22 Post by manicsounds » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:20 pm

bluraydefinition reviews of Cheeky and Friviolous Lola

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thirtyframesasecond
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Re: The Tinto Brass Collection

#23 Post by thirtyframesasecond » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:42 pm

The Key is on Amazon Prime - actually better than Brass's reputation would suggest (I haven't seen his notorious films). It benefits from having a great cast; Stefania Sandrelli from The Conformist, British TV and stage veteran, Frank Findlay, etc. and it's not the smutfest you might expect (though you see a lot of Sandrelli's arse - but that seems to be Brass's thing), but it's more of a thoughtful examination of the erotic thoughts of a long-time husband and wife. Maybe it's Brass's Eyes Wide Shut?

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Re: The Tinto Brass Collection

#24 Post by colinr0380 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:21 pm

The Key is also based on the novel by Junichiro Tanizaki and has been filmed multiple times in Japan, perhaps most notably in 1959 by Kon Ichikawa (Ichikawa also adapted The Makioka Sisters by Tanizaki) and by Toshiharu Ikeda in 1997, which was notable as the first Japanese film to show pubic hair uncensored (though the more I see of Nikkastu's output from earlier than that 'milestone', including a version of The Key from 1974, that boundary being crossed seems rather moot!)

Yazuo Masamura also directed a few adaptations of Tanizaki in the 1960s, including Manji (Swastika) and Irezumi (Tattoo), that are well worth tracking down.

EDIT: Apparently there is a 2014 US version with David Arquette and Bai Ling! (NSFW)

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Re: The Tinto Brass Collection

#25 Post by MichaelB » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:37 pm

thirtyframesasecond wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:42 pm
The Key is on Amazon Prime - actually better than Brass's reputation would suggest (I haven't seen his notorious films). It benefits from having a great cast; Stefania Sandrelli from The Conformist, British TV and stage veteran, Frank Findlay, etc. and it's not the smutfest you might expect (though you see a lot of Sandrelli's arse - but that seems to be Brass's thing), but it's more of a thoughtful examination of the erotic thoughts of a long-time husband and wife. Maybe it's Brass's Eyes Wide Shut?
When I was unexpectedly impressed, I looked up the original British reviews, which were equally positive. I think Frank Finlay is a fairly major reason for its success, but that success is undeniable.

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