Law and Order

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dad1153
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Re: Law and Order

#26 Post by dad1153 » Sat May 29, 2010 5:42 pm

Polybius wrote:
dad1153 wrote:Some days I like "Criminal Intent" more (the Nicole Wallace episodes in particular but pretty much anything that Rene Balcer wrote)
How brilliant was it to make Goren's Moriarity a knee buckling beautiful sociopath who is on his intellectual level?
As brilliant as the decision to wrap-up the character's arc (which let's face it, went on a bit too long and gave us amusing clunkers like the Michael York-starring episode where we meet the man that made Nicole who she is) with a brilliant sequel to the Season 6 premiere episode "Blind Side." John Glover as Declan Cage (Gore's mentor) and Martha Plimpton as his neglected daughter was brilliant casting (not to mention it dove head-first into the 'daddy' issues that are the show's bread-and-butter), but then to wrap-up their stories along with Nicole's in Season 7's "Frame"? Holy shit, how many episodes tie-up loose ends (both plot-wise but also psychologically) as neatly and as unpredictably as that episode? "Frame" is the one reason I wasn't sad (disappointed yes) when USA Network sacked D'Onofrio and Erbe from the cast (along with Bogosian, who should have stayed), their stories had been neatly taken care of and there wasn't anywhere else to go but down recycle avenue. Plus the teaming of Saffron Burrows' Serena Stevens and Jeff Goldblum's Zack Nichols has given us the best detective team-up on a "L&O" spinoff since Benson-Stabler was established in "SVU."
other days "SVU" tickles my fancy (the 2nd to 5th seasons were the peak of the show, when whole episodes were devoted to Munch or Finn and it wasn't 'The Benson & Stabler' show almost all the time)
That was always a major strength of that show. Sometimes it was Liv and Fin, sometimes Stabler and Munch...you literally didn't know from week to week how it would play out. I love Benson and Stabler together but the episode where he went to Prague by himself and the one where she kept the little Honduran girl on the phone until they could track her down are some of the series' greatest moments and those were done without the other partner in the mix at all.
They still do that from time (a recent "SVU" episode had Benson and Finn working together practically the entire show), but much less frequently than before because Hargitay and Meloni command such high salaries that the network feels if they're paying them all this dough they damn better be front and center in almost every episode.

"Pandora" (the Prague episode) has a scene that never has failed to make me weep: when Elliott tracks down the home of the guy making a little girl pose suggestively online, and the little girl opens the door. Stabler wants to cry but holds it together, has the little girl touch his shield. Freaking brutal! :cry: "911" (the Benson episode with the Honduran girl on the phone for which Mariska won an Emmy for Best Actress in a Dramatic role) is just a freaking roller coaster ride. Me being an old-time "L&O" foggie my favorite "SVU" episode are Season 3's "Stolen" (a child kidnapping leads Cragen to a missing baby that he and Max Greevey had worked on back in the mothership's squadron, which is now older and adopted by a loving family; a rare "SVU" that focuses on good people torn apart in court by and for doing the right thing) and "Guilt" (ADA Cabot steps out of the law's bounds to nail a serial rapist that talked his victim into attempting suicide; the classic Cabot-Petrovsky rivalry took form here). Oh, who am I kidding? If I started mentioning favorites we'd be here all night. But these two stand-out as memorable-to-me "SVU" eps.
and most days I can count on the mothership "L&O" to have at least one good repeat (preferably with Kincaid or Carmichael as Assistant ADA
No love for Jamie? I liked the three of them in sequence about equally, with a slight nod to the soulful and quietly strong Claire.
Jamie is OK but she totally felt like a lightweight weakling during a couple of years where everything else on the show (writing, acting, plotting of season-long arcs, etc.) rose to new heights, with the "LA Trilogy" being the notable exception to this quality comments. She was part of the only year "L&O" won an Emmy for Best Drama, but all the great moments from those two seasons (Briscoe losing his daughter, Schiff dealing with a death penalty case and with his wive's terminal life choice, McCoy withholding evidence against a drunk driver to avenge the memory of Kincaid, Curtis dealing with this wife's MS diagnosis, etc.) don't involve Jamie as anything other than a standby observer. Ironically the years Carey Lowell was part of the cast are some of my favorite "L&O" seasons, but not because of her being in them.

And you're right about me not changing my mind about Anderson. Didn't like him when he played pretty much the same character (under a different name) in "SVU" as Stabler's temporary partner, and I certainly didn't like him as Ed Green's replacement. The 13 episodes when Lupo and Green were teamed-up (the same year McCoy became DA and Cutter & Connie became the ADA team) was truly the show's last great cast, not a weak link in the acting chain and the show's ratings/quality rose substantially from the ashes of the 'Detective Beauty Queen' (i.e. Nina Cassidy's) season, truly the mothership's nadir creatively... ouch! Then Anderson steps in and the acting has this glaring black hole (no pun intended!) that pretty much sucks the acting greatness surrounding it. (sigh).

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Polybius
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Re: Law and Order

#27 Post by Polybius » Sun May 30, 2010 3:31 am

TNT ran a mini-marathon the night NBC aired the series finale (taking the eps right up to 10:00, then switching to something else), so I finally got to catch the Ed Green farewell episode. That was terrific. I have some remedial viewing to do to catch up on the Cutter-Rubirosa era.

And, yes, Blind Side was fabulous. I am a stone cold John Glover whore. He can play anything under the sun, from nebbishy twits to stone cold murderers, with equal aplomb.

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dad1153
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Re: Law and Order

#28 Post by dad1153 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:15 pm

Polybius wrote:I am a stone cold John Glover whore.
That brings up scary images I don't even want to think about. :wink:

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Jeff
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Re: Law and Order

#29 Post by Jeff » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:48 am

I had no idea that there was a UK version.

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dad1153
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Re: Law and Order

#30 Post by dad1153 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:04 am

It's available exclusively at Target right now until October 26th. If you're a diehard fan of the mothership and don't mind spoilers here's a NY Times comparison/review between Yank/British episodes.

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Re: Law and Order

#31 Post by flyonthewall2983 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:45 pm

CI picked up for it's final season. And the UK version will premiere on BBC America October 3rd.

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Polybius
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Re: Law and Order

#32 Post by Polybius » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:57 am

So...Nichols and Stevens just get pushed out the door?

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dad1153
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Re: Law and Order

#33 Post by dad1153 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:21 pm

Goldblum quit the show (he hasn't said why) and ratings for his season were down from the year before; Saffron Burrow's contract (and her character's fate) remains unknown. "CI" is currently the lowest-rated and oldest-skewing (also most expensive due to its network TV legacy) USA original show, which is an all-around deadly combo except that the "CI" repeats are a utility player in USA's rerun-heavy schedule. So the network and Wolf would have had to start from scratch with a new lead detective (assuming Burrows stays) which was too big a gamble with the already-low ratings, or swallow hard and pay-up for D'Onofrio to come back for eight final episodes that will at least get the old fans back one more time. Kathy Erbe (Eames) isn't locked yet to return, leaving open the possibility that Burrows' Det. Stevens character will be Goren's head-bobbing token female Watson wannabe for the last eight episodes of the show. Also, USA has given Wolf a pilot committment and Dick hinted that this eight final "CI" episodes might be used to launch into the new project. Could Goren get his own 'Characters Welcome' skewed show on USA? Stay tuned!

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Polybius
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Re: Law and Order

#34 Post by Polybius » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:26 am

Too bad. I liked Seth and I liked the way they transitioned to him and Stevens last season by killing Ross off. I liked him (and I've almost always liked anything that Bogosian has done) but that was really powerful and, at least to me, unexpected.

If Saffron stays, hopefully they'll write her as more of a co-equal than Eames was. She had her moments but there wasn't much for someone as gifted as Erbe to work with.

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Donald Brown
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Re: Law and Order

#35 Post by Donald Brown » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:17 am

Goldblum's a fine actor, but his character wasn't nearly as interesting as D'Onofrio's. Goren is one of the most unique and compelling characters on any show, ever.

The writing during this last season was abysmal, too. Was Balcer even involved? It seems the series was only any good when under his close guidance.

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dad1153
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Re: Law and Order

#36 Post by dad1153 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:20 pm

Balcer quit "CI" back in Season 6, when Warren Leight took over. He was off for a year and then took over mothership "L&O" for the last two seasons (he oversaw last year's Van Buren cancer storyline). He's currently overseeing the new "Law & Order: Los Angeles" spinoff for NBC that premieres next Wednesday at 10PM (the mothership's old time slot). Balcer is the only reason I'll be tuning into "LOLA," hoping against hope the 'celebrity' driven promos that have started popping out are misleading in order to get eyeballs to sample the show.

Anywho, anyone see the two-hour "SVU" season premiere last night? It was insane seeing Desmond from "Lost" chew scenery like a drama queen; I almost feel that they even blew that car/truck (watch the show to understand) to welcome in the "Lost" viewers that might have tuned into "SVU" just to see Henry Ian Cusick hit on Det. Benson.

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domino harvey
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Re: Law and Order

#37 Post by domino harvey » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:01 pm

dad1153 wrote:Balcer quit "CI" back in Season 6, when Warren Leight took over. He was off for a year and then took over mothership "L&O" for the last two seasons
Wow, that explains why the original LAO all of a sudden got good again

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Polybius
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Re: Law and Order

#38 Post by Polybius » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:16 am

A sudden lack of Fred Thompson also didn't hurt that process one bit.

I liked Goren for a while but he eventually became something of a big, hairy Mary Sue.

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dad1153
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Re: Law and Order

#39 Post by dad1153 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:19 am

domino harvey wrote:
dad1153 wrote:Balcer quit "CI" back in Season 6, when Warren Leight took over. He was off for a year and then took over mothership "L&O" for the last two seasons
Wow, that explains why the original LAO all of a sudden got good again
Didn't you see the 'Written by Rene Balcer' and 'Executive Producer Rene Balcer' credits during almost every freaking episode of mothership "L&O" over the past couple of years? From regular civilians I'd expect this, but not from a prolific criterionforum contributor that knows how movies/TV work!

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dad1153
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Re: Law and Order

#40 Post by dad1153 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 am

So, did anybody else watch the big "Law & Order: SVU/Los Angeles" crossover? I just watched the "LOLA" premiere along with the above-average "SVU" episode right before it (which went back to the show's roots about just how f**ed-up rape is when it isn't sugar-coated by side issues; JLH brought the acting goods big time) and I liked the latter more than the former but there's plenty of "L&O" love to go around. Corey Stoll's detective Jaruszalski is the clear stand-out actor/character of the new bunch, he's like a slicker no-nonsese bald LA version of Briscoe (minus the funny cracks, but those could come with time). Ulrich is basically playing a minor variation of Rey Curtis' straight-laced hunk cop. I liked Rex Winters better during his brief couple of minutes on "SVU" (Benson more than held her own) than on "LOLA" where Stoll blew Skeet off the screen in their scenes together. Molina was too moody as the ADA and Regina Hall too meek as his assistant; gotta check out Howard's first episode next week for a better opinion. Maybe when all these guys on the 'Law' side start interacting with D.A. Peter Coyote (MIA from the pilot) things will start clicking better. Guest-stars were on par with the Gotham version of the show: passable cardboard composites of real-life people with little to no emotion/lives outside their brief couple of on-camera minutes.

The pilot just reeks of a rushed production (no intro sequence, no D.A., predictable plot twists for "L&O" veterans, by-the-book slick L.A. photography and editing from "Sopranos/Mad Men" veteran Alan Coulter, etc.) but the DNA is still classic, recognizable "L&O" with a new coat of glossy paint. This one gets an automatic watch just for being "L&O" but it could have been so much worse than I expected. I'm in.

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dad1153
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Re: TV of 2011

#41 Post by dad1153 » Wed May 25, 2011 2:17 am

Chris Meloni quits "Law & Order: SVU." With Mariska Hargitay cutting her workload midseason and Jennifer Love-Hewitt (!) poised to replace her as female lead detective this show is going to jump several sharks multiple times next season.


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domino harvey
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Re: Law and Order

#43 Post by domino harvey » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:42 pm


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mfunk9786
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Re: Law and Order

#44 Post by mfunk9786 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:00 pm

104 discs!! I wonder if that's a record for a non-public domain set.


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dad1153
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Re: Law and Order

#46 Post by dad1153 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:09 am

Pass. I'd rather get the individual seasons, but a lot of them (basically all of the 2000's except for the already-released 2003-2004 14th season) will be exclusive to this Box Set. Still, that's a lot a CHUNG-CHUNG for your CHA-CHING! :)

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tarpilot
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Re: Law and Order

#47 Post by tarpilot » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:28 am

Anyone catch Franco Nero in the SVU premiere a few months back? Surreal. The guest spots have always been the best part of the franchise but they've really been upping their game in the last couple of seasons with a bunch of my pet faves (Nero, Huppert, Noonan, Dourif).

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dad1153
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Re: Law and Order

#48 Post by dad1153 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:20 pm

I flew from AZ to NYC this morning on Jet Blue, and they carry DirectTV TV channels. Caught a "L&O" episode from its last season on TNT with Debra freaking Winger as a school principal covering for her students' murder/rape of another student. She only looked 10 or so years older than her character from "Terms of Endearment," not the 27 years that have actually passed.

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tarpilot
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Re: Law and Order

#49 Post by tarpilot » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:42 am

Figured here would be a good place to ask: can anyone recommend me episodes from any of the series' iterations that deal in any way with cults, fringe groups, or esoteric religions? Anything from neo-Nazis (Chris Cooper, racist superlawyer) to eps "not based on" Scientology (the fake-Jeremy Blake/Theresa Duncan outing) would apply.

Thanks!

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domino harvey
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Re: Law and Order

#50 Post by domino harvey » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:36 am

Law and Order: Criminal Intent has some good ones that fit:

"Con-Text" (Season 2, Episode 10) Motivational speaker with way too much influence gets a follower to commit murder

"Graansha" (Season 2, Episode 21) Gypsies and their insular world are threatened by Goren and Eames and the victim that led them there

"Gemini" (Season 3, Episode 2) Man tries to Aryan-ize himself via a series of murders

"the Gift" (Season 3, Episode 3) Santeria's unusual practices come into play

"Sound Bodies" (Season 3, Episode 8) Young Manson-type convinces his teenage followers to commit crimes. This is the one where the kid punches Goren, AKA the Best Moment Ever

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