Blockbuster

[mfunk9786]

Not only did Blockbuster cheat and lie to get its late fees, but the incompetence of its late-fee accounting and accountability extended all the way from the in-store clerks (who routinely failed to scan titles back into inventory and/or file them in a timely manner or correct location) to the highest echelons of the corporation which at one point literally had its own collection agency (or pretended to?). From which I got a letter. For a few dollars worth of late fees. That I nevertheless did not, in fact, owe in the first place. I would dance with glee on their grave if they hadn't put all those great local video stores out of business in the process of becoming the useless behemoth that they were. They didn't have a great idea like Netflix or a venerable customer service culture like Amazon. They were the first to get biggest in their market and that's all.

I worked at Blockbuster in college and am not familiar with the whole cheating and lying to get late fees thing. We would routinely, multiple times per shift, pull titles out of the drop box to scan them in. Whether they were chewed by a dog and covered in slobber, or returned without the case, we'd do everything in our power to get them to the right place. Now, I don't know if that was the case with all the stores in the country, but the two ones I worked at had that as a standard procedure. Late fees were automatically applied to accounts that didn't have titles returned (the last thing we did before closing was scan in any titles still in the box to ensure that no one was erroneously penalized), we wouldn't ratchet them up or manipulate them in any way, and we had the ability to credit them if there was a situation that warranted it. Not to fly too much of a flag for a company that clearly had issues on a corporate level, but it was a good company to work for, generous with employee rentals and flexible hours, and very customer retention focused. I'd be curious to find out what you're referring to exactly.

[warren oates]

Just to what Lava Lamp said. I'd had multiple occasions in multiple stores in multiple states on both coasts where I was assessed late fees for items I'd returned with more than enough time -- I'm talking not hours but days ahead of time. Most of those instances got worked out the next time I came in, when I complained that I had, in fact, returned said item. Still, I had to complain. The worst was when, because my CC expiry date got crossed with a clerk-related misfile at a store I didn't frequent, I got a collection letter in the mail for something else I'd returned on time in the amount of, iirc, approximately $2.99.* Absolute bullshit.

*Of course it seems like what they really wanted to do was preemptively charge my card and hope that I didn't notice/complain. That's a shady business model if I've ever seen one. I doubt it was ever made public, but I'd sure be interested to know what percentage of their revenues -- at least before 2005 -- came from "late" fees.

[mfunk9786]

Weird. The majority of customer accounts I was in and out of every day didn't ever have late fees on them - and the ones that did tended to be either folks who acknowledged that they returned titles late, or ones that were incredibly blustery about the fact that they were inaccurate despite it occurring over and over again. I know it sounds like I'm accusing you of something, so my apologies for that - but that certainly wasn't my experience as an employee. And I'm 8 years out from ever having set foot in a Blockbuster, so I don't really have a dog in the fight aside from being on the other side - we really weren't up to any deceptive business practices with regard to late fees.

[med]

I'm much longer removed from my time as a Blockbuster employee, but if there was some late-return scam, I didn't know about it.

The video-rental business was a racket though. I worked at Blockbuster in the early days of DVD—so early that most stores (mine included) didn't yet carry them. This was still in the time of priced-for-rental-only releases; VHS copies of new home releases cost in excess of $100 each, with only select box-office hits being available in affordably priced editions. I recall having to tell more than a couple of people that that destroyed/lost copy of, say, Money Talks would cost them $120 to replace. No one ever took that well.

[flyonthewall2983]

I always wondered why VHS tapes were so expensive.

[LavaLamp]

This is going off on a tangent, but since VHS tapes kind of relate to Blockbuster (since the VHS era ('80's - to early 2000's) is probably when they did their biggest business), here goes:

I disliked VHS tapes even before the existence of DVDs; the pan & scan format, crummy picture quality, bulkiness, need to rewind, etc. These were definitely one of the most poorly thought-out & executed products in history. To top it off, their extreme expense (in many cases) made the whole VHS experience that much worse.

[domino harvey]

This was still in the time of priced-for-rental-only releases; VHS copies of new home releases cost in excess of $100 each, with only select box-office hits being available in affordably priced editions. I recall having to tell more than a couple of people that that destroyed/lost copy of, say, Money Talks would cost them $120 to replace. No one ever took that well.

And this inflated price tag is why horror movies became so prevalent in the 80s-- the studios putting out the slashers on tape set their price far lower so mom and pop shops could afford to buy more b-movie horror titles than the a-pictures, leading to an inflated stock of this genre in many video stores

[mfunk9786]

Just to what Lava Lamp said. I'd had multiple occasions in multiple stores in multiple states on both coasts where I was assessed late fees for items I'd returned with more than enough time -- I'm talking not hours but days ahead of time. Most of those instances got worked out the next time I came in, when I complained that I had, in fact, returned said item. Still, I had to complain. The worst was when, because my CC expiry date got crossed with a clerk-related misfile at a store I didn't frequent, I got a collection letter in the mail for something else I'd returned on time in the amount of, iirc, approximately $2.99.* Absolute bullshit.

*Of course it seems like what they really wanted to do was preemptively charge my card and hope that I didn't notice/complain. That's a shady business model if I've ever seen one. I doubt it was ever made public, but I'd sure be interested to know what percentage of their revenues -- at least before 2005 -- came from "late" fees.

Also, charging you for $2.99 ain't a scam. Just wanted to put that out there. No business is going to survive on $2.99 bills here and there, it would have cost nearly as much if not more in manpower and materials to send you that statement by mail, which is probably one of the reasons why Blockbuster no longer exists, but that's another story

[Zot!]

I disliked VHS tapes even before the existence of DVDs; the pan & scan format, crummy picture quality, bulkiness, need to rewind, etc. These were definitely one of the most poorly thought-out & executed products in history. To top it off, their extreme expense (in many cases) made the whole VHS experience that much worse.

I'm not sure how you could not like VHS tapes before disc media was invented. They offered the chance to watch films and tape and share TV programs and films, and ahem "adult" materials in the privacy of your home. Sure, they seem antiquated now, but at the time? C'mon. It's like not liking the NES.

[knives]

It wasn't the only option though what with Laserdiscs and the like.

[med]

It wasn't the only option though what with Laserdiscs and the like.

Laserdiscs were prohibitively expensive and most video-rental stores did not carry them.

[mfunk9786]

Also, laserdisc players didn't come into prominence until the 80s, and even then they were hardly something that a lot of people owned. They didn't allow you to record anything off of television, which is the primary reason why VHS penetration was so substantially ahead of laserdisc.

[warren oates]

Just to what Lava Lamp said. I'd had multiple occasions in multiple stores in multiple states on both coasts where I was assessed late fees for items I'd returned with more than enough time -- I'm talking not hours but days ahead of time. Most of those instances got worked out the next time I came in, when I complained that I had, in fact, returned said item. Still, I had to complain. The worst was when, because my CC expiry date got crossed with a clerk-related misfile at a store I didn't frequent, I got a collection letter in the mail for something else I'd returned on time in the amount of, iirc, approximately $2.99.* Absolute bullshit.

*Of course it seems like what they really wanted to do was preemptively charge my card and hope that I didn't notice/complain. That's a shady business model if I've ever seen one. I doubt it was ever made public, but I'd sure be interested to know what percentage of their revenues -- at least before 2005 -- came from "late" fees.

Also, charging you for $2.99 ain't a scam. Just wanted to put that out there. No business is going to survive on $2.99 bills here and there, it would have cost nearly as much if not more in manpower and materials to send you that statement by mail, which is probably one of the reasons why Blockbuster no longer exists, but that's another story

I'm sure mfunk was as conscientious an employee as I was a tape/DVD returner (never had problems with any local libraries or other video stores). But it certainly seemed like Blockbuster itself had serious late-fee issues baked into its corporate culture structurally.

A couple of points worth clarifying: 1) I used "if I recall correctly" because I'm not sure of the exact amount, just that it was absurdly low to be threatening me and my otherwise stellar credit rating with a collection letter for what was also a totally unwarranted charge; 2) I know I'm not the only one this happened to as I've got other friends who told me similar stories; 3) At least until 2005, it really felt like it was the company's explicit policy to aggressively enforce and charge late fees -- even to the point where more than one store I dealt with neglected to double-check late notices against their existing inventory to make sure no charge was based on their own clerical errors; 4) Blockbuster didn't get rich assessing me incorrect late fees, but not for any lack of trying -- all those pennies do add up, especially for those customers who were less vigilant or willing to stand up for themselves.

[mfunk9786]

Another fun fact about how wrong you're being in respect to some secret plot to assess incorrect late fees to customers: There were grace periods on returns built into scans. 3 day rentals had a 4 day window, 5 day rentals had a 7 day window, and 7 day rentals had a 9 day window for returns without late fees, just to avoid altercation from folks who waited until the last minute. When we scanned titles in, they weren't assessed late fees unless they were beyond the grace period.

I had no idea we were up to such shady business, and I think that's likely because we weren't. Also, during the time I was working there, a policy was instituted where no late fees were assessed until the grace period was over plus 30 days, at which time the cost of the entire item would charge to your credit card on file, and then you would have another 30 days to return the item for a full refund of that charge minus a $1.25 restocking fee.

Shocking business practices, I know.

[warren oates]

I sure wish you'd been the manager of the stores I had problems with (or do I?). Anyway, it seems likely that we're talking about different periods in the company's history. Wasn't the "no late fee" policy (that is, secret late fees but only after 30 days, which, btw, resulted in multiple consumer lawsuits!) in effect only after 2005? By then I'd largely stopped needing Blockbuster, even for new releases.

A quick Google search indicates that Blockbuster got 16% of its revenues from late fees in the year 2000 for a total of $800 million. Not exactly chump change. Before and after that for a number of years the amount hovered around 10% of total revenue. I'm guessing they only started changing their late-fee policies when those numbers were dropping anyhow due to increased competition from Netflix and other services.

[med]

My employment at Blockbuster falls into when you frequented them. Yes, we were very strict about late fees. But, as I said earlier, I'm unaware of anything shady or untoward about how they were handled, at least at the store I worked at.

[mfunk9786]

Again, they weren't secret late fees! We told customers exactly what the policy was. Why shouldn't a rental business be allowed to recoup cost from something that a customer hasn't returned in over a month? I don't know why I'm getting so worked up over this, but it's just so incredibly silly to imply that there were deceptive practices going on. This is the sort of thing I'd have screamed in my face by people who obviously just brought their movie back late and did so routinely - maybe I'm just experiencing a Vietnam-style flashback or something, but it's driving me crazy to have to defend a company that, quite frankly, got what it deserved due to lack of adaptation to a quickly changing business model, letting down loyal employees and customers in the long run instead of trying to change things up to be competitive.

But really: There was no conspiracy with regards to late fees. Late fee truthers are barking up the wrong tree. Our company policy was always clearly stated by employees, we had grace periods, we were able to refund fees in most cases if a customer took issue with them... I still do not see the problem here.

[flyonthewall2983]

http://www.funnyordie.com/articles/ad43 ... lockbuster" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[willoneill]

Late fee truthers

Worst. Conspiracy Theory Group. Ever.

I never worked at a Blockbuster (got hired at another Canada-wide chain, Rogers Video, but didn't take the job), but I frequented many Blockbusters, and I never experienced this late fee scam. And I frequented enough of them often enough that if it was going to happen, it would have happened.

One policy Blockbuster did have, in the late 90s, was that if you rented an older movie (i.e. not a new release), and you didn't like it, they'd give you a coupon for another older release rental for free. Let's just say I Armond White'd the shit out of that policy. Sorry Blockbuster.

[swo17]

I think warren oates refers to the late fees as "secret" because of this amazingly brazen marketing campaign.

[flyonthewall2983]

I seem to remember the mom and pop stores in my hometown lasting well into the 90's, before a Blockbuster came in sometime after I moved out.

[Dylan]

This was still in the time of priced-for-rental-only releases; VHS copies of new home releases cost in excess of $100 each, with only select box-office hits being available in affordably priced editions. I recall having to tell more than a couple of people that that destroyed/lost copy of, say, Money Talks would cost them $120 to replace. No one ever took that well.

And this inflated price tag is why horror movies became so prevalent in the 80s-- the studios putting out the slashers on tape set their price far lower so mom and pop shops could afford to buy more b-movie horror titles than the a-pictures, leading to an inflated stock of this genre in many video stores

You're absolutely right. I probably saw most of the horror movies released by New World, Vestron, and Media (I unconsciously trusted those three labels the most) before I entered middle school because Horror took up a spectacularly large chunk of what was stocked by virtually every smaller video store I remember going to (and horror was, blessedly, also exactly what I wanted to watch all the time as a pre-teen). I'm sure horror being the most conspicuously large section in so many video stores in the 80s and 90s contributed to the genre's incredible resurgence in public popularity with Scream and everything that followed.

Meanwhile, Hollywood Video had a great selection of foreign films on VHS, and in the infancy of my love for Bergman, Truffaut, Fellini (circa 2002) that's where I'd go. Hollywood Video also had a great selection of classics, and was the only place I could find Citizen Kane, for instance. Blockbuster had an OK selection of horror (it's where I was able to find most of the Charles Band productions from the mid-80s onward) but between the smaller places and Hollywood Video, Blockbuster always came last in that shuffle. Before I moved to Seattle in 2007, the Blockbuster I used to go to from time-to-time had turned its focus mostly to video game rentals, and when I went back a couple years ago that same Blockbuster had gone out of business and was replaced by a video game retailer.

Speaking of my current stomping ground, the wonderful Scarecrow Video may be closing after the holiday season. In addition to being a breathtaking library of VHS, DVD, and blu & from all regions, it's also a place that (in the best way possible) takes me back to the small video stores in my hometown because where else in the pacific northwest can I still walk in and see - first thing - so many New World, Vestron, and Media VHS tapes for rent? Every time I walk in there I have the urge to buy a VCR and do some mega time-tripping for a while via renting VHS tapes. And that's a magnificent feeling.

[cdnchris]

Speaking of my current stomping ground, the wonderful Scarecrow Video may be closing after the holiday season.

Son of a bitch. That place is amazing. Unfortunately I live too far south or I'd be in there every day. I always got a kick looking through their laserdiscs and it's a trip just how much stuff they have on multiple formats (laser, DVD, Blu-ray, VHS, and so on) from multiple regions.

When I first moved here there were a lot of decent places to rent movies (of the chains I especially loved Hollywood Video as others mentioned) and even buy new and used DVDs. Now most of these places are closed. I actually only went to Blockbuster once since moving here many, many years ago. I remember how busy the place was on Friday nights. Driving by it in recent years it was always a ghost town.

I experienced the Blockbuster fee issue a couple of times at one particular store in London (Canada). It hit me with late fees a few times despite getting them back well within time. I think after the fourth time I just sucked it up and went to another one a little further (requiring a bus ride, which I really wanted to avoid) and never got hit with fees there, despite usually keeping the movies right up to the due date, so I'm guessing it's more of a location/employee thing than corporate thing.

[mfunk9786]

I think warren oates refers to the late fees as "secret" because of this amazingly brazen marketing campaign.

There were no more late fees, though. There were "Don't steal our shit" fees after more than a month passed by, but there weren't late fees. You were essentially paying a few bucks to have a movie for approaching a month and a half and there were still people with the balls to complain when they were charged for the item after that time passed, even though they were getting a refund for bringing it back. Cry me a fucking river

[Professor Wagstaff]

Late fee truthers

Worst. Conspiracy Theory Group. Ever.

They say that the talking hamster and rabbit from the Blockbuster ads have ties to the Illuminati.