Abel Gance

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Zazou dans le Metro
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:01 am
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#126 Post by Zazou dans le Metro » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:56 pm

Thank you Kinsayder , a thousand times thank you. For this alone you should be nominated and instantly endowed as forum member of the year. I have spent two hours drowning in a morass of non-mac compatible rubbish downloads.

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denti alligator
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#127 Post by denti alligator » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:31 pm

This looks amazing! Not at all the highly pixellated quality I've come to expect from"bootlegs."

Listen: this is the best this film will look/sound on video for the forseeable future. If you care about silent cinema--not, if you care about cinema, you will go out of your way (and you don't really, it's pretty easy to get) to acquire this.

Definitely up there among the top DVDs of the year!

Adam
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#128 Post by Adam » Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:45 pm

La Roue, tonight in Los Angeles:

4/13 @ 6pm
la Roue
Co-Presented by LA Film Forum
Join The Cinefamily and Turner Classic Movies as we co-present the world premiere digital restoration of filmmaker Abel Gance’s extraordinary work, La Roue (1922), which was created from the best available prints and negatives from several countries, and which will be accompanied by a new orchestral score by composer Robert Israel. Gance’s masterwork is a tragic love story set in the grime and soot of the railway yards, told with astonishing cinematic technical advances. French filmmaker Jean Cocteau took note of the film’s transformative power by declaring, “There is cinema before and after La Roue, as there is painting before and after Picasso.” By 1923, Gance had established himself as France’s leading filmmaker, and this film cemented that reputation. Its sophisticated use of cutting was so innovative that according to Gance, Russian directors Sergei Eisenstein and Vsevolod Pudovkin traveled to France and personally thanked him for educating them in the art of editing.
Dir. Abel Gance, 1923, Digibeta, 273 min.
There will be a 30 minute break for dinner.
Tickets - $12/ $8 for members

rollotomassi
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:23 pm
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#129 Post by rollotomassi » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:02 pm

Great job. I already have a copy of Napoleon. It was taken from the last TV broadcast on Channel 4 - actually in 1989 as part of the French Revolutionary bicentenary - and transferred to disc. Then we took the footage of Coppola's ending - beginning at the moment Napoleon rides between the lines of his troops and screen goes into ultra wide mode - and supplanted this at the end, but kept the Davis score. They matched perfectly. Admittedly, the sound isn't perfect as it isn't in stereo, only mono, but I can't abide Coppola's advert for nepotism score and this is the best version I think I'll ever see. Hats off to the guy on Usenet for his job, though.

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La Clé du Ciel
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:18 pm
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LA ROUE on dvd

#130 Post by La Clé du Ciel » Sat May 03, 2008 3:18 pm

Goodness me, there’s such a great deal to talk about!

Let’s start with what must be said of the Flicker Alley release, as a release of a neglected masterpiece. It’s PHENOMENAL. I am amazed and overjoyed that this film exists with a new score, with tinting, with beautiful image quality… hell, exists AT ALL on dvd. No matter what flaws it may have, this is a superlatively important release and we must thank everyone involved with the utmost sincerity for giving this film the opportunity of being seen by new audiences. Do not hesitate to buy this release – it’s a stunning presentation of a stunning film.

[Here comes the “But!”]

That said, however, there are inevitably minor points which ought to be pointed out—simply because they are there.

Obviously, I have not seen the prints of LA ROUE (some foreign, i.e. not French) that served as the basis for this restoration. However, I can comment on the longer French print assembled by Marie Epstein in 1980 (which is 300 minutes in length, as opposed to Flicker Alley’s 270 – and this is NOT a difference due to different fps). This was based on long French prints supplemented by shorter prints and is still the longest version yet put together. If there is a fundamental problem with the current release (and one that is by no means the fault of Lobster or Flicker Alley) it is that the original French prints were not used as a basis for a new restoration. There are dozens of shots and scenes in the 300-minute version that are NOT in the current release. Equally, there are numerous scenes and shots which ARE in the current release and are NOT in the 1980 restoration. In other words, if these two restorations were compared and collated THEN, and ONLY THEN, would we reach the most complete possible version. Until the French are willing to fund a definitive restoration, we will have to settle for a version which (brilliant though it is) is NOT complete.

I do miss several important elements that are NOT in the current release, but I rejoice in seeing equally important scenes which ARE and which I have not seen before. To take one example, the first time we meet the adult Elie and Norma is a delightful scene and entirely new to me. I had read about the subsequent scene where they chase each other in the train yard (Richard Abel mentions it in his book on French silent cinema), but never seen it.

Conversely, there are a few important chunks missing from other early sequences. The motif of the personified signal signs is eliminated (bar in one scene later in the film, which is thus rendered contextually odd by the missing earlier scenes), as is the final scene of the young Elie and Norma (who recreate the train wreck with a toy train set).

There are numerous other examples of differences, minor to major. This is not to say that the current release doesn’t work – it DOES work, and works magnificently – but that we must aware that it is not as complete as it could be.

I thought I should also say something about the debate raging over the titles. Again, I must stress that I have NOT seen the prints on which this version was made. Regarding the “blacked-out” areas onto which titles are placed, I should say that in the original French print these are almost never blacked-out. Aside from the opening credits (captured by others on the Flicker Alley thread), where credits are indeed placed on blacked-out areas over moving images, there are only a few examples (e.g. my capture no. 4) of blacked-out areas over moving images (and these are never travelling shots, but moving static shots… if that makes sense!). I guess that if these blacked-out shots are taken from a Russian/other foreign prints then the blacking out was already present – but we must be aware that the original French prints would not have had them.

My only complaint about the current release is the way in which the titles are presented. Aesthetically, they simply do not complement the film. Regardless of language (which is really not the point), their aesthetic presentation is niggling (or at least, I find it niggling). That the blacked-out areas so obviously stand out (not matching the grading of blacks within the rest of the image) is one thing, but I find the choice of type-font distressing. Why not a font that tries to resemble the originals (which are varied and clearly contemporary with the film, whilst ugly computerised fonts clearly are not)? Why the Times New Roman-style apostrophes within words (i.e. ’) and yet horrible Arial-style inverted commas for speech (" and ", as opposed to “ and ”)? The speech-marks look so cheap! This really isn’t a financial issue, but one of aesthetic taste. I know this is an unspeakably petty point to raise (and please understand that I am not disrespecting this release as a whole, which is as I say is MAGNIFICENT), but small details that could easily have been tweaked DO annoy me.

Here are a few captures from a grotty copy of the 300-minute version. I include these to illustrate the huge variety of fonts, designs, and superimposition techniques used throughout the film.

1:
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2:
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3:
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4:
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5:
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6:
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7:
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8:
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9:
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10:
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11:
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(The reason this is in English is because these are Norma’s first words to Sisif – she is English, after all!)

12:
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13:
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14:
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15:
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16:
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Whilst some of the above are from scenes/titles missing from the Flicker Alley release, some of the titles here are those present. Many titles are different from their Flicker Alley incarnation (nos. 1, 2, 5, 12): the originals are superimposed, the FA titles are not. None of those incredible titles where the text is imposed over images of boiling water (no. 2) are present, even though the same title-texts are present in both versions. Aside from the computerised handwriting (ugly certainly, but no doubt unavoidable without reshooting titles – for which I presume there was no budget), there is only one font throughout the new release. The only variation is italicisation. The original has several fonts and a huge variety of superimposition techniques etc. When characters are frenzied, their words appear over boiling water or get larger and fill the screen; when poetic descriptions are invoked, their words appear over moving trains and steam etc (NO blacking-out areas on these original travelling shots).

Now if the prints used by Flicker Alley already contained blacked-out areas differing from the French originals (perfectly possible due to the foreign prints which would probably have had to perform this same function), or that various superimposed titles where taken out and replaced by foreign exhibitors, then this is all acceptable. However, if FA replaced whole titles (like the boiling water ones) because they were obliged to avoid subtitles at all costs, then this is another matter.

There are moments when subtitles should probably have been unavoidable. When Sisif refuses the cheque, it is perhaps not entirely clear what is happening because there is no title to explain – one must read his writing, which is in French, to understand quite what it is. Similarly, when he reads the advert in the paper. People are variously Anglicised as “Mr” or remain French as “Monsieur”. This type of confusion must also be deemed avoidable.

Again, language is not, as such, the problem – it is the AESTHETIC presentation that matters. For example, I am more than happy to watch NAPOLEON in English because the font has been selected to match the original and their aesthetic presentation is in perfect accord with the rest of the film. It is a question of whether the titles LOOK right – surely that is the real issue?

I appreciate that I’ve gone on about some very minor faults, but they do need raising. The fact that this edition could not use the 5-hour print was no doubt due to the financial difficulty of getting the CF material. One cannot criticise FA/Lobster for something that could not be helped – my minor points of quibbling must only address those elements that COULD have been bettered. These faults are incredibly, STUPIDLY minor compared to the awesome revelation of seeing this film on dvd.

To conclude, I will say once again that this is a PHENOMENALLY IMPORTANT RELEASE and is not going to be bettered any time soon. This film has never looked so good (as I said much earlier in this thread, the French prints contains numerous errors and were never tinted properly) and has never sounded so good (Israel’s score is excellent).

So, please don’t hesitate – go and BUY IT!
Last edited by La Clé du Ciel on Sat May 03, 2008 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Donald Trampoline
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#131 Post by Donald Trampoline » Sat May 03, 2008 4:16 pm

Thanks for the amazing dissertation! I have an old VHS of a severely truncated version, with original French titles like this, but you've saved me the trouble of whipping it out and figuring out how to digitize images.
However, if FA replaced whole titles (like the boiling water ones) because they were obliged to avoid subtitles at all costs, then this is another matter.
A big "if," and completely unacceptable if so. Not to mention that the DVD should take precedence over the probably single broadcast that TCM will do, or adjustments could be made for the DVD version (something similar to the option of viewing with subs or without to easily make everyone happy.)

Your points on text are well taken. Even the evolution of punctuation and type fonts as used in silent film intertitles are of historical interest, and more importantly in this film, seem clearly part of the aesthetic presentation (not to mention a possible misspelling someone spotted in the other thread) . It makes me sad, whatever the reasons behind this.

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HerrSchreck
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#132 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat May 03, 2008 5:13 pm

Thanks. No surprises there.. but if anyone can hammer down the ineluctable truth about Things Gance, it's you.

Great post as ever La Clé du Ciel. It's been too long. Each time you appear it's reassuring-- thought you may have disappeared this time.

News on the Napoleon front?

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La Clé du Ciel
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#133 Post by La Clé du Ciel » Sat May 03, 2008 5:47 pm

If only there were news. I fear there is none at all.

I might also share some notes about LA ROUE as a film, having only really experienced it properly thanks to this dvd! I was always deeply impressed (I’ve seen it on the big screen only once, at the NFT), but this new release makes its impact all the greater… it must have been a shattering experience in 1922…

Btw, I’m not sure there can be any chance of the LA ROUE dvd being altered – I’ve already received my (pre-ordered) copy from FA themselves through perfectly normal channels! (And I’m in the UK.)

I would comment on J’ACCUSE, but as it has yet to be tweaked before dvd release (the head of the restoration team is ill, hence the delay) I will reserve my notes for later.

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HerrSchreck
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#134 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat May 03, 2008 6:26 pm

I'm wondering if you got the sense too, since you're the only other guy here with a disc (as opposed to having seen it on a lower def cable tv transmission on TCM), that there were two sources of telecine on this? One seemed to be in hi-definition (encoded for sd of course) with very clean contrast and sharp detail... and the other seemed to be bugged with chroma and patently low def. The clue to me that this is not just the difference between a high quality print for some areas vs lower quality prints in other spots-- comprising the sum of the composite-- is the appearance of the chroma. And patently video-type artifacting in those low def areas. In fact, in those parts of the composite, there was the appearance of another Shepard-Vampyr motif: that of inserting speckles and scratches into the electronic intertitles (ones that take up the whole screen, i e NOT superimposed), to try and make it match the film.

Interestingly, this seemed to appear only in those chroma'd low def telecine'd parts of the film on disc.

I'm thinking that perhaps, to get hold of the Russian material, they couldn't get use of an actual print... and that the deal specified that the Russian print had telecine run by it's owners, who then shipped the tape to Lobster, who then joined it together with their own better quality digibeta of the French material. Ie an electronic composite as well as a celluloid composite.

Just speculating as to the reasons this could be?

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filmyfan
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#135 Post by filmyfan » Sun May 04, 2008 11:30 am

Re: Kevin Brownlow on Napoleon on a Q & A on the Siver Screen Oasis forum.

"I think a compromise has been reached.

Yes, after nearly thirty years, I think something will happen. (What a strange business this is!) "

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La Clé du Ciel
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J’ACCUSE

#136 Post by La Clé du Ciel » Sun May 11, 2008 12:42 pm

Well, I thought I would post a little something on J’ACCUSE, even though it is not going to be out on dvd for a while yet… I felt I might just share a couple of observations on seeing the film in a new presentation for the first time.

Firstly, I think the film gets better as it goes on! The first third was a little awkward in its cutting when compared to the latter sections. The early instances of rapid-cutting didn’t seem quite right, as if Gance was still finding his feet with this new style of editing. However, there are some magnificent scenes in the first part – the declaration of war, with those surging crowds, was exciting and then the montage of hands saying farewell very moving. Throughout, the exterior photography looked incredibly beautiful (particularly in the countryside around the village where the love-triangle is played out in the second part). Strange that the interiors for Diaz’s house should have so very obviously painted-backdrops outside the door and window. Oddly though, it did match those very artificial shots of painted scenery when Jean read parts of Les Pacifiques (where Edith wanders around like the dancer in the DIXIEME SYMPHONIE “transfiguration” sequence) – which themselves contrast with those beautiful tinted exteriors of sunsets over the sea. The early scenes in the trenches do look rather unconvincing, but they improve as the film goes on (the final battle scenes looked superb)…

I feel the film really kicks into gear in the last third – the final battle, Jean’s madness, the return of the dead… absolutely stunning. The film seems aching to overcome its own limitations, and finally succeeds by the end! It does have a few clunky bits and pieces, but it’s held together by a sense of mission and zeal… I can’t even begin to imagine how powerful the film would have been to audiences in 1919 – no wonder there are reports of women fainting in the aisles when it was shown in Britain!

One general point on the broadcast version (and one I assume too late to be altered for the dvd) is that the fps rate seemed ever-so-slightly fast. It was present but not always too distracting throughout, but I felt the genuine battlefield footage stood out as most noticeably too fast (being intercut with staged footage, this was even more obvious). Do other people feel the same about this?

I also think there were a couple of tinting alterations needed (based on the descriptions left by those who did see an original French tinted print before the CF it)… The opening farandole should have been tinted red (or, at the very least, pink) according to two written sources that saw the original tinted print (Richard Abel and Kramer/Welsh). Both describe the red light reflected on the villagers’ faces. Also, it doesn’t seem right that it remain the existing amber because it is meant to be set at night (or, at the least, late evening). The owl (whose presence is finally explained, unlike in previous versions I’ve seen!) is a bad omen because it is “An owl on a midsummer’s night. Calamity in sight.” Also, the MCUs and CUs of Diaz and his mother are shot with a black backdrop, as if they were meant to be cut into a tinted night scene. As it stands in this version, there is a very awkward transition from amber to blue tinting in exteriors without any warning. I also felt that Jean’s solo raid should have been tinted blue, as it is specified as taking place at night. (The officer says “tonight” and as the scene plays out there is no change of tint to emphasise the change in time between their conversation in the afternoon in b/w and the subsequent raid, which presumably happens much later.) The titles were also untinted throughout. The skip from b/w titles to tinting in several scenes is distracting, especially those where the title is actually a CU of a document being examined by someone within the scene! There were a few spelling errors scattered amongst the titles, but I’m sure they will get ironed out before the full release…

I noted Israel used the Bizet for the opening (one of the few pieces of music we seem to know was specified by Gance). I always approve of anyone using Alkan, which he does at a couple of points (I thought the use of Alkan in his JUDEX score was masterful)… The music used for the finale, Siegfried’s funeral march, was rather weedily played I thought, which made me regret Israel hadn’t used Berlioz’s Symphonie Funèbre et Triomphale as had been used in Brownlow’s CINEMA EUROPE… But, overall, the score was effective and added to the tremendous pleasure of watching the film in a proper presentation.

All in all, I felt this reborn J’ACCUSE was a fantastic experience!

What did other people feel about this film? I’ve seen it in previous incarnations (the Kaplan print and also a very truncated Pathé 9.5mm…), but I was still incredibly excited by this far superior version. I’d be fascinated to hear what others who’ve never seen the film before thought…

Next up, a few thoughts on LA ROUE…

Once again, I want to start by saying what an immense pleasure to see LA ROUE on dvd! The benefit of watching it in this presentation rather than in unofficial incarnations is immeasurable.

The first half of the film is absolutely stunning. I’ve never felt the almost physical impact it has so strongly before. I know the plot gets criticised by just about everyone, but I think there’s so much going on and it’s handled in such a way as to make it deeply compelling. The way those obsessive, violent emotions really surge through the first part – it’s quite extraordinary. There was striking camera movement in some scenes – I was impressed by the playful fluidity of the scene where we first meet Norma and Elie in adult form (a scene I’d never seen before). The rapid-cutting was blistering and seemed perfectly expressive of all that churning, destructive desire that nearly tears Sisif apart… (I always thought Severin-Mars must have been an imposing figure, so physically present does he seem in the early parts of the film – such great contrast to the latter half where he becomes so resigned.) I often felt there was something slightly missing in the rapid-cut train journey sequence, but this print obviously found the missing climax, which I hadn’t seen before – a final burst of incredibly fast images.

And the photography! If only someone would do a full 35mm restoration and release it – the version I saw at the NFT had so much that was crisp and beautiful that some shots almost looked like deep-focus or 3D.

The “symphony in white” does have a very different pace to the first half, but the rewards of the mountain photography (painted backdrops aside!) and some great scenes make up for any slowness. Perhaps a BIGGER orchestral score would help bind together the second half more effectively, uniting any stop-starting brought on by the lagging pace. I might even suggest that a longer second part could work better – as it is, I sometimes feel it’s far more piecemeal than the first half. A larger score and more scenes (of which there are many in the 5-hour version) might help give a greater sense of the gravitas which is clearly the second half’s aim. Again, having a three-quarter-length version doesn’t help – either have it long and make it big, or have it short and make it intimate… This film is like a vast tone poem. Whilst having a great deal of intimacy, it constantly reaches out into far bigger themes. LA ROUE needs large-scale music that can span large-scale timeframes, gathering and uniting long stretches of drama into coherent passages… Having a BIG score that can encompass smaller details into a far larger conception (something I would argue the film itself does, absolutely) is vital to do it justice. I think Israel’s score is a fantastic effort, but if the film were to be restored in an even longer version (and I hope to goodness it will be), then I’d hope they gave it the scale of accompaniment it needs… Financial limitations (I wish they’d given Israel a larger string-section!) and perhaps an inclination towards a sparser, more modernist sound mean the lushness of a large orchestral score is lacking. Perhaps this is just my personal taste, but I feel thin strings and frequently small-scale, chamber-like interludes can seem awkward when combined with such an epic, romantic cinematic conception… (How I long for a Carl Davis score for LA ROUE!)

If the CF funded a full restoration, the film could probably be almost as long as NAPOLEON is now. Ideally, there would be a short 2-3 hour version (one of those assembled by Gance in the late 20s) and a long 5+ hour version (the longest that can be made) – this way there would be no awkward three-quarter-length versions with bits and pieces missing. Compromise can be so… compromising.

I apologise if I’ve been rambling on for ages, complaining and praising at random – I will come to a halt now. I suspect I need some time to sit down and digest such huge films…

Once again, I hope people will share their thoughts on both LA ROUE and J’ACCUSE when they’ve had a chance to watch them… These are massively important releases and I do hope they’ve made some impact!

Also, to reply to Herr Schreck, I don’t think I’m as adept at spotting telecine variations as you. I suppose I find the variety of sources, and the various tints and tones (toning always lightens the grading), makes it rather difficult to spot. I was rather taken aback when the 35mm source suddenly gave way to the 9.5mm for a few minutes in Part Two (and this scene does, of course, exist in perfect 35mm in the CF prints). If there is hi/low def variation (and I am more than willing to trust your observations on this), it may well be due to the timespan of the restoration. Images Film Archives/Bob Harris have been planning to do a version of LA ROUE since at least 1980. Richard Abel wrote (in 1983): “Images Film Archives may also release a long version of LA ROUE (approximately 220 minutes), copied from a recently discovered tinted and toned print in an Eastern European film archive”. As you say, the hi/low def differences might come from how/when various prints were copied/printed/transferred etc… Again, I can only speculate!
Last edited by La Clé du Ciel on Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tryavna
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Re: J’ACCUSE

#137 Post by tryavna » Mon May 12, 2008 8:26 pm

La Clé du Ciel wrote:I feel the film really kicks into gear in the last third – the final battle, Jean’s madness, the return of the dead… absolutely stunning. The film seems aching to overcome its own limitations, and finally succeeds by the end! It does have a few clunky bits and pieces, but it’s held together by a sense of mission and zeal…
This was very much my reaction as a first-time viewer. The middle third really plods -- though I wonder if it's just because, as a 21st-century viewer, I've just become oversaturated by war-time romantic triangles in movies. (Heck, it's even in Pearl Habor, and I never in my wildest imagination would have though of comparing Gance and Michael Bay!) But the final half hour in particular was incredibly powerful and moving. "A fantastic experience" indeed!

And I do agree with you that the "found" battlefield footage played a little faster than the rest of the film. I don't recall the rest of the film giving that impression, though.

By the way, during the confrontation scene, when Séverin-Mars struggles with the Jean Diaz character, I caught a glimpse of a hand casting a shadow on the left-hand side of the frame, and I was reminded of the behind-the-scenes clips of Gance gesticulating wildly when directing his actors. I wonder if that was the hand of the director literally (and accidentally) casting its shadow over the film....

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La Clé du Ciel
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#138 Post by La Clé du Ciel » Mon May 12, 2008 9:28 pm

I can see why the love triangle is a less appealing aspect of J’ACCUSE. I still find it interesting in terms of its relation to numerous other Gance films. I am always struck by repeating motifs of missing parents and lost children. There are so many incomplete/unconventional families scattered throughout his films. And of course there are numerous Oedipal dramas – LA ROUE being the obvious example, but also in later films… I suppose one must conjecture about Gance’s own status as an adopted child and how deeply it may have affected him (he spoke neither truthfully nor in detail about his very early life)… I find the triangle interesting on this account, and I do think it gives rise to some very memorable scenes – e.g. Edith revealing the child beneath her cloak, that unsettling flashback to her rape… In particular, there is that cruel and feverish sequence where Francois tells Edith the child has drowned (just in order to see her reaction – she has not yet admitted Angele is hers). She hurries out to the river – shots of rushing water and the riverbank intercut with her frantic search, heightening the suspense and creating a subjective sense of threat and panic over the child’s safety. The photography in all these exteriors is, as I said, incredible, so there is still much on which the eyes can feast (even if the gorgeous locations contrast with some limited interior sets and painted backdrops!).

That’s a lovely detail about Gance’s hand! There is a very brief fragment of on-set footage from J’ACCUSE in Kaplan’s ABEL GANCE, HIER ET DEMAIN – Gance joking with Joubé and the camera…

Actually, whilst I remember, I don’t think I’ve mentioned that I’ve now seen the two Kaplan documentaries on Gance. The earlier of the two (HIER ET DEMAIN, 1963) is pretty uninteresting – very short, rather bitty, bad music, and smacking of pretension. It has a weird opening shot of Gance (taken, I think, on the set of CYRANO ET D’ARTAGNAN, 1963). It starts in CU, but slowly zooms out. Gance’s expression alternates between a bizarrely pert, playful, lip-pouting twitch, and a slightly pretentious, almost shifty, self-conscious loftiness. Very strange. As ever with on-set footage of him, he seems to be playing for the camera – he’s looking into the lens and there’s that mischievous twinkle in his eyes… Or is he just confused?

Kaplan’s second documentary (ABEL GANCE ET SON NAPOLEON, 1985) is much better. Its presentation style is still annoying (and, if anything, detrimental) – a very 1980s and French-looking 1980s and French presenter (Michel Drucker) musing and wandering about the empty Billancourt studio or sitting in front of huge blow-ups from the film, his trouser leg highly raised. Yet the documentary is very much worth a look, simply because it largely consists of footage from AUTOUR DE NAPOLEON. There are endless fascinating glimpses of the filming and it’s such a joy to see the cast and crew clearly having so much fun… As is typical of Kaplan (but probably rather smart, given the endless legal wranglings over NAPOLEON), she doesn’t use any footage that isn’t hers. Hence, we get clips from the original camera negative of the snowfight… complete with a pulsating decomposed hole in the middle of the frame! And there are no clips of anything else from the film – just AUTOUR DE NAPOLEON and her Brienne reels. This carries the advantage of her filling out most of the documentary’s running time with incredibly rare production footage (we’re not going to see it any other way for years), so I recommend it for this reason alone. (There are, of course, no English subtitles on the official R2 dvd – it’s part of Kaplan’s box set… I’m not sure if you can find the discs individually anywhere…)

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tryavna
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#139 Post by tryavna » Wed May 14, 2008 12:02 pm

Those are some very interesting points about Gance's use of broken/unconventional families. Since I've only seen four of his films (five when I finally get around to La Roue), I guess I wasn't even aware of that being a major motif/theme in his work. Still, as you say, there are some arresting moments in the middle portion, but on the whole it just leaves me cold. Gance is obviously indebted to the same narrative conventions of melodrama that Griffith was at this point in their respective careers. But I got the sense that Gance's interests really lay outside the "human" story of the romantic triangle, and so I found that central section a frustrating delay to getting back to the larger story of the war. Of course, by the same token, I don't suppose that the finale would be quite as powerful if we were not already aware of the surviving characters' flaws and their need to live lives that are worthy of those who have lost their own. So it's a bit of a catch-22: the melodrama is necessary for the visionary elements to work so well. (And I suppose I can't really say that I wish Gance had compressed that middle section, since it's the scope and length of Gance's films that make them unique.)

I'll keep my eyes open for those Kaplan docus, but I can't read French, so I'm limited in what DVDs I can/want to get from France. The behind-the-scenes footage that I'm most familiar with is the stuff in Brownlow's Charm of Dynamite docu.

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MichaelB
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#140 Post by MichaelB » Sat May 17, 2008 11:27 am

HerrSchreck wrote:I'm wondering if you got the sense too, since you're the only other guy here with a disc (as opposed to having seen it on a lower def cable tv transmission on TCM), that there were two sources of telecine on this? One seemed to be in hi-definition (encoded for sd of course) with very clean contrast and sharp detail... and the other seemed to be bugged with chroma and patently low def.
Yes, I'd tend to agree with this. At its best, Flicker Alley's La Roue ranks amongst the finest presentations of a silent film that I've ever seen, but it's clearly been compiled from multiple sources over and above the obvious contrast between the 35mm and 9.5mm-derived material.
I'm thinking that perhaps, to get hold of the Russian material, they couldn't get use of an actual print... and that the deal specified that the Russian print had telecine run by it's owners, who then shipped the tape to Lobster, who then joined it together with their own better quality digibeta of the French material. Ie an electronic composite as well as a celluloid composite.
Also, if a Digibeta existed already, that's so massively cheaper than commissioning a brand new telecine (even assuming the latter was possible at all, which may not have been the case), that it wouldn't be at all surprising if that's what they did.

And can I also echo the general consensus that the title situation, while irritating, is a relatively minor issue when set against the magnificence of the film as a whole? In other words, ABSOLUTELY don't let this issue prevent you from buying it: if a better copy comes along a few years hence, that's great, but it's not a gamble I'd be comfortable with taking. And when it comes to Gance releases, almost anything is usually better than nothing - I still have a 1989 TV-sourced VHS of the first Brownlow/Carl Davis restoration of Napoléon that's unlikely to be rendered obsolete any time soon...

Oh, and I'm delighted to confirm that Sight & Sound has commissioned a lead DVD feature on Flicker Alley's last three releases (Méliès, Saved from the Flames and La Roue). Obviously, I'd prefer to give them 900 words apiece, and even that arguably wouldn't be enough, but it's one hell of a lot better than the original capsule-review plan - not least because it'll be much more prominent.

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HerrSchreck
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#141 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat May 17, 2008 3:20 pm

Thanks-- at least I know I'm not seeing things.

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tryavna
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#142 Post by tryavna » Sat May 24, 2008 12:44 pm

Go figure.... After having complained about the melodramatic excesses of J'Accuse, I found myself utterly captivated throughout the entire running-time of La Roue. I suppose it's the element of perversity that wins me over. I mean, it is a film about incest, after all, and yet everyone is entirely sympathetic, including the character whom Norma marries and -- most magnificently -- Severin-Mars' character. It really is a shame that Severin-Mars died so early. He didn't leave much of an impression on me in J'Accuse, but he's wonderful in La Roue.

I think the other thing that made it work better for me than J'Accuse is that Gance never lets up on either the tragic overtone or the unconventionality of the story and storytelling techniques. In other words, while the narrative is still steeped in melodrama, Gance never gives over entirely to melodrama's conventions -- as he does in the central third of J'Accuse. There's a lingering sadness throughout the film (due to the impending deaths of both Gance's wife and Severin-Mars perhaps?), and it's almost oppressive during the third hour. Even the ending is more the stuff of catharsis than of uplift -- almost like Val Lewton's famous quotation about the meaning of The Seventh Victim: that "death is good."

Really quite wonderful. I must pick up the DVD very soon, and I now want to revisit Gance's Beethoven. Although it's been a couple of years since I first watched it, La Roue reminded me of it a great deal. The lightning scenes, perhaps?

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#143 Post by HerrSchreck » Wed May 28, 2008 2:41 pm

The other day I was watching Loretta Young (with a way too young and happy George Sanders) in Four Men and a Prayer by John Ford.. I reminded my counterpart there watching with me that this same young looking Loretta Young was the lead in Laugh Clown Laugh from over a decade before-- driving home just what a kid she was during that Chaney film (she was 15).

And then... lightbulb over head time. How fucking much does Laugh Clown Laugh owe thematically to La Roue? I recall in the booklet to La Roue the indications regarding the influence Roue has had in the cinema, with films like Pandora's Box and Diary of a Lost Girl being singled out. Hell you could go on with the Brooksy comp and include Prix de Beaute. But no film-- via the narrative of the surface melodrama-- resembles La Roue more than Laugh Clown Laugh. It's essentially the same story, redrawn, relocated, and condensed and simplified for Hollywood.

Amazingly a search turned up no comparisons between the two-- but the similarities are enormous: A man finds and adopts a little baby girl, raises her as his own. He brings the child up to a healthy young-womanhood, and as the child-- believing him to be her father-- blossoms into adulthood, the "father" finds himself irrevocably drawn into a place he strains to avoid.. falling in love with his beautiful charge, who believes him her blood father. His obsession inevitably begins to dominate his day to day disposition until he becomes utterly miserable, and his work life is sorely affected. Both films are very similar, with the obsession ratcheting up to such a degree that the consumption becomes agonizingly total and complete, with
SpoilerShow
joyful release coming only in the relief provided by death, which is rendered in both films with nearly christlike senses of sacrifice.. I must die so you shall live (normally)

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Abel Gance

#144 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:19 pm

Abel Gance (1889-1981)

Image

Brownlow has written:" . . . With his silent productions, J'accuse!, La Roue, and Napoleon, [Gance] made a fuller use of the medium than anyone before or since." Whether or not that is true, Gance unquestionably sang a song of camera. In Cinema Europe, we see his technical director, Simon Feldman - 103 years old at the time he was interviewed - describing how he rigged up a camera on horseback to film the epic chase sequence in Napoleon, and powered it with steam and compressed air. In love with movement and innovation, in search of "a new alphabet of cinema," Gance had cameras mounted on pendulums and guillotines. He also decided Napoleon was too small, so he exploded it across three screens. His was an aesthetic born of rigor and personal sacrifice. La Roue's schedule, Gance confessed in a 1967 interview, was worked around his fiancee's battle against tuberculosis; she died on the last day of filming. At the beginning of the movie, Gance would quote Victor Hugo: "Creation is a great wheel, which does not move without crushing someone."


Filmography

Bonaparte et la révolution (1971)

Valmy (1967) (TV)

Marie Tudor (1966) (TV)

Cyrano et d'Artagnan (1964)

Austerlitz (1960)

Magirama (1956)

Tour de Nesle, La (1955)

Quatorze juillet (1953)

Capitaine Fracasse, Le (1943)

Vénus aveugle (1941)

Paradis perdu (1940)

Louise (1939)

J'accuse! (1938)

Voleur de femmes, Le (1938)

Un grand amour de Beethoven (1937)

Jérôme Perreau héros des barricades (1935)

Lucrèce Borgia (1935)

Roman d'un jeune homme pauvre, Le (1935)

End of the World (1934)

Dame aux camélias, La (1934) (supervision)

Napoléon Bonaparte (1934)

Poliche (1934)

Maître de forges, Le (1933)

Mater dolorosa (1932)

Fin du monde, La (1931)

Marines et cristeaux (1928)

Napoléon (1927)

Au secours! (1924)

Roue, La (1923)

J'accuse! (1919)

Dixième symphonie, La (1918)

Ecce Homo (1918)

Zone de la mort, La (1917)

Barberousse (1917)

Mater dolorosa
(1917)

Droit à la vie, Le (1917)

Gaz mortels, Les (1916)

Ce que les flots racontent (1916)

Fioritures (1916)

Fou de la falaise, Le (1916)

Périscope, Le (1916)

Un drame au château d'Acre (1915)

Énigme de dix heures, L' (1915)

Fleur des ruines, La (1915)

Folie du Docteur Tube, La (1915)

Héroïsme de Paddy, L' (1915)

Strass et Compagnie (1915)

Masque d'horreur, Le (1912)

Il y a des pieds au plafond (1912)

Nègre blanc, Le (1912)

Pierre philosophe, La (1912)

Digue, La (1911)


Forum Discussion

General Abel Gance discussion

Napoleon (1927)

French Impressionism

Flicker Alley, (which at time of this writing, is in the process of releasing two major Gance titles: La Roue, and J'Accuse).


Web Resources

TCM: Lost and Found: Abel Gance (Notes on the restoration and presentation of La Roue and J'Accuse, both of which premeired on-- and were brought to dvd via-- a partnership between Turner Classic Movies and Flicker Alley.)

William Drew, (noted critic and Gance scholar, just wrote the liner notes for the La Roue dvd).

Interview with Kevin Brownlow at the NFT / BFI, regarding , among other things, the restoration and presentation of Napoleon. [/url]

a site in development devoted to gance, with many links.

a compendium of Louella Parson's interviews, with a contemporary article about Gance while in NYC at the approx time of J'Accuse.


On DVD/other home video:

La Roue R1, Flicker Alley

J'Accuse R1, Flicker Alley

Napoleon R1 VHS, Universal-Zoetrope (Coppola),

Occasional source for the r4 Austrailian "loophole" dvd

Un grande amour de Beethoven R1 dvd, R2 dvd

La Fin du monde (The End of the World-- NOTE: "Roadshow" version!) R1, Something Weird Video

Lucrèce Borgia R2, R1, which includes shorts Au secours! and La Folie du Dr Tube

Cyrano et d'Artagnan [/R2

Le Capitaine fracasse [/R2.

Austerlitz, R2

Five titles direct from Rene Chateau (mix of dvd/vhs):
LOUISE, MAITRE DE FORGES, LE TOUR DE NESLE, LA UN GRAND AMOUR DE BEETHOVEN, and VÉNUS AVEUGLE, all R2.




Books
Abel Gance – Steven Philip Kramer, James Michael Walsh (Twayne Publishers, 1978)

Abel Gance: A Politics of Spectacle – Norman King (BFI, 1984)

Un Soleil dans chaque image : Souvenirs d'Abel Gance (Broché)

Napoleon: Abel Gance's Classic Film (Brownlow)

*Thanks to Knappen, zazou dans le metro, and DonaldTramploline for supplying additional content
Last edited by HerrSchreck on Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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domino harvey
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#145 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:51 am

I know there's Abel Gance by Steven Philip Kramer and James Michael Welsh, because my university has a copy. It's one of the Twayne Theatrical Arts series of books from the late 70s about well-known auteurs. I don't know how good it is though, the Godard Twayne book makes huge factual errors, but the Resnais book is really great, so it's anyone's guess how worthwhile a read it is. I mean, I guess I could read it but I don't feel well-versed enough in Gance to tell you how accurate it is.

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Kinsayder
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#146 Post by Kinsayder » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:31 am

Brownlow's book on Napoleon, out-of-print but easily obtained, is a massively entertaining and informative read.

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HerrSchreck
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#147 Post by HerrSchreck » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:33 pm

Bump, updated with content supplied by three forum members (first bump deleted, w delete asap).

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Felix
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#148 Post by Felix » Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:11 pm

Kinsayder wrote:Brownlow's book on Napoleon, out-of-print but easily obtained, is a massively entertaining and informative read.
I am working my way through it at the moment and you are right on both counts.

A word to the wise though, the original 1983 edition tends to go cheaper than the revised version (2004). As far as I can see the only difference is a four page postscript covering what had happened since the original edition and that will already be familiar to any readers of this forum. For those more familiar with DVD than book buying ABEBOOKS is a great source for second hand books.

Oh, and Coppola, you're a shit. If you must buy this philistine's movies, then buy them secondhand and make sure he doesn't get a penny more for his lawyers to prevent this masterpiece from being made widely available. Boy, do you need a horse's head in the bed...

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Saturnome
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#149 Post by Saturnome » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:42 am

I finally got the Usernet Napoleon. It seems my dvd player can't play those dvd9 stuff but it plays on my computers, fair enough.
This version is quite excellent, despite being a very old vhs rip it is very watchable, and what a joy to hear Carl Davis' scores, as always. The only thing that bugs me is the untriptych ending. When I saw Coppola's version on rented and faded vhs, that part made such an impact on me! But oh well, it's included as a bonus.
I must thank Kinsayder for posting about this, and his guide to usernet. I even made crappy dvd cover art!

I have nothing constructive to say, nothing but see this film!
Last edited by Saturnome on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Knappen
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#150 Post by Knappen » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:48 am

If you feel like watching it with your dvd player you could split it to two dvd5 discs with dvdshrink.

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