The Lists Project

An ongoing survey of the Criterion Forum membership to create lists of the best films of each decade and genre.
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backstreetsbackalright
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#101 Post by backstreetsbackalright » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:48 pm

lord_clyde wrote:Music videos you say? I like that ruling.
I abhor it, only because it means it makes for a more difficult narrowing-down project for me. But objectively speaking, it's definitely the right thing to do. Maybe we should start a thread on music videos, to get our brain juices flowing...

A question: What about television series? Mini-series? What's the thinking on those?

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duane hall
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#102 Post by duane hall » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:37 pm

Mini-series, I understand. (Thinking of the obvious classics, Decalogue, Berlin Alexanderplatz, Fanny and A, Scenes from a Marriage and the like.) But the line has to be drawn before television series, certainly. I mean... right? I think to qualify, a film must be categorizable as either a feature or a short. Music videos would qualify as short films. The aforementioned mini-series can reasonably be called features. But.. sitcoms, TV dramas ... would throw the list into total incoherence.

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Brian Oblivious
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#103 Post by Brian Oblivious » Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:26 pm

matt wrote: I think music videos will be fair game when the '80s list rolls around.
Do you mean the '70s? I expect to throw a vote for at least one music video from that decade. But I probably won't include any on my 80's list at all.

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

#104 Post by zedz » Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:45 pm

Amazing. I was just thinking of this very issue in regard to my 70s list and had logged on to raise it.

I was going to propose that TV movies should automatically be admissable (and this would include one-off plays, so that 1970s Mike Leigh enthusiasts, for example, could opt for Abigail's Party rather than Bleak Moments) and seek a ruling on mini-series, which I think should also be acceptable. I think our lists of significant movies would be unfairly distorted if we couldn't include things like Berlin Alexanderplatz ot The Decalogue. It would be mighty odd if you could only vote for the short version of Fanny and Alexander, or the (generally considered inferior) theatrical version of Scum. Some directors, such as Clarke, worked primarily in television, even though they're a major part of film culture.

I reckon that one-off shorts like Avery's Grinch are fair game as well. I'm considering the eerie Spanish The Phone Box for the 70s, and I think that might have been originally made for TV.

I agree that we should draw the line at TV series (though there are series of The Sopranos that probably outperform most other American films of their era), or individual episodes of TV series (even though there may be individual contributions to anthology shows that are significant works in a director's oeuvre).

I like the music videos ruling (come into my list, Come Into My World), even though it makes everything much more complicated. And we probably still need to decide what to do with pilots (e.g. Twin Peaks).

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Matt
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#105 Post by Matt » Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:30 pm

TV movies (even those run over successive evenings) and TV specials are okay. No epsiodic television. Of course, this is going to make everyone's list-making even more difficult, and I pity the poor person stuck with compiling the lists for the '70s, '80s, and '90s (and '00s, if we do that).

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Michael
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#106 Post by Michael » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:42 am

I'm now working on my '70s list. A question about Gates of Heaven: the DVD says it's 1978 and imdb says it's 1980 so which year is correct?

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duane hall
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#107 Post by duane hall » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:33 pm

Well, the rule was... Go with IMDB even if it's technically incorrect. But Gates of Heaven encourages an exception... We could make a list in this thread establishing "our" dates for some of the more controversial cases. For such titles we would come to consensus through some discussion.

It just seems a little more natural to push Breathless into the 60s, for instance, than to have Gates of Heaven leap-frog all the way into the 80s.

But then, sticking with IMDB in all cases is much simpler.

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Rufus T. Firefly
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#108 Post by Rufus T. Firefly » Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:22 am

The 1960s List (compiled in August 2005):
  • 1. 8½ (Fellini, 1963), 554
    2. 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick, 1968), 522
    3. Andrei Rublev (Tarkovsky, 1966), 505
    4. L'Avventura (Antonioni, 1960), 487
    5. Playtime (Tati, 1967), 464
    6. Persona (Bergman, 1966), 460
    7. La Dolce Vita (Fellini, 1960), 438
    8. Contempt (Godard, 1963), 385
    9. Dr. Strangelove, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (Kubrick, 1964), 378
    10. Psycho (Hitchcock, 1960), 376
    11. Jules And Jim (Truffaut, 1961), 352
    12. The Battle Of Algiers (Pontecorvo, 1965), 347
    13. Once Upon a Time in the West (Leone, 1968), 338
    14. Au hasard Balthazar (Bresson, 1966), 327
    15. The Apartment (Wilder, 1960), 315
    16. Le Samourai (Melville, 1967), 314
    The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (Leone, 1966), 314
    18. L'Eclisse (Antonioni, 1962), 313
    19. Blow-Up (Antonioni, 1966), 305
    20. Breathless (Godard, 1960), 300
    21. Cléo from 5 to 7 (Varda, 1962), 294
    22. My Life to Live (Godard, 1962), 290
    23. Faces (Cassavetes, 1968), 286
    24. La Jetee (Marker, 1962), 279
    25. Lawrence of Arabia (Lean, 1962), 262
    26. Woman in the Dunes (Teshigahara, 1964), 259
    Last Year at Marienbad (Resnais, 1961), 259
    28. Viridiana (Buñuel, 1961), 258
    29. Band of Outsiders (Godard, 1964), 246
    30. The Umbrellas of Cherbourg (Demy, 1964), 242
    31. The Leopard (Visconti, 1963), 234
    32. Yojimbo (Kurosawa, 1961), 230
    33. The Birds (Hitchcock, 1963), 229
    34. Rocco and His Brothers (Visconti, 1960), 217
    35. Peeping Tom (Powell, 1960), 216
    36. My Night at Maud's (Rohmer, 1969), 212
    37. Belle de Jour (Luis Bunuel, 1967), 202
    38. High and Low (Kurosawa, 1963), 198
    39. Two or Three Things I Know About Her (Godard, 1966), 192
    40. Il Posto (Olmi, 1961), 189
    41. Weekend (Godard, 1967), 188
    42. Night of the Living Dead (Romero, 1968), 175
    43. Pierrot Le Fou (Godard, 1965), 174
    44. The Trial (Welles, 1962), 170
    45. Le Trou (Becker, 1960), 166
    46. An Autumn Afternoon (Ozu, 1962), 158
    47. Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors (Paradzhanov, 1964), 156
    48. Branded to Kill (Suzuki, 1967), 155
    49. The Silence (Bergman, 1963), 154
    50. Late Autumn (Ozu, 1960), 152
    51. Ivan's Childhood (Tarkovsky, 1962), 149
    52. Dog Star Man (Brakhage, 1964), 148
    53. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (Ford, 1962), 145
    54. Shoot the Piano Player (Truffaut, 1960), 144
    55. Gertrud (Dreyer, 1964), 142
    56. Bonnie and Clyde (Penn, 1967), 138
    57. Winter Light (Bergman, 1962), 136
    58. The Graduate (Nichols, 1967), 130
    59. Red Beard (Kurosawa, 1965), 127
    Rosemary's Baby (Polanski, 1968), 127
    61. Lolita (Kubrick, 1962), 126
    62. The Manchurian Candidate (Frankenheimer, 1962), 124
    63. Tokyo Drifter (Suzuki, 1966), 123
    64. I Fidanzati (Olmi, 1963), 122
    65. The Exterminating Angel (Buñuel, 1962), 121
    66. The Young Girls of Rochefort (Demy, 1967), 119
    Tokyo Olympiad (Ichikawa, 1965), 119
    68. Juliet of The Spirits (Fellini, 1965), 115
    69. A Hard Day's Night (Lester, 1964), 112
    70. Repulsion (Polanski, 1965), 110
    Simon of the Desert (Buñuel, 1965), 110
    72. West Side Story(Wise/Robbins, 1961), 108
    73. Z (Costa-Gavras, 1969), 107
    74. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (Nichols, 1966), 106
    75. Alphaville (Godard, 1965), 103
    Mothlight (Brakhage, 1963), 103
    77. Fellini Satyricon (Fellini, 1969), 102
    Point Blank (Boorman, 1967), 102
    79. Red Desert (Antonioni, 1964), 100
    80. Naked Island (Shindo, 1960), 99
    Lola (Demy, 1961), 99
    82. Mouchette (Bresson, 1967), 97
    83. Hour of the Wolf (Bergman, 1968), 96
    Eyes Without a Face (Franju, 1960), 96
    85. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (Hill, 1969), 95
    86. The Hustler (Rossen, 1961), 91
    87. The Wild Bunch (Peckinpah, 1969), 89
    88. Kwaidan (Kobayashi, 1964), 88
    89. Youth of the Beast (Suzuki, 1963), 87
    90. The House Is Black (Farrokhzad, 1963), 86
    91. Petulia (Lester, 1968), 84
    Marnie (Hitchcock, 1964), 84
    Divorce Italian Style (Germi, 1961), 84
    94. The Milky Way (Buñuel, 1969), 82
    Carnival of Souls (Harvey, 1962), 82
    96. Black Sunday (Bava, 1960), 80
    A Woman is a Woman (Godard, 1961), 80
    98. The Temptation of Doctor Antonio (Fellini, 1962), 79
    The End of Summer (Ozu, 1961), 79
    100. For A Few Dollars More (Leone, 1965), 78
    Fighting Elegy (Suzuki, 1966), 78

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Brian Oblivious
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#109 Post by Brian Oblivious » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:55 am

Archie Leach, thanks for getting this done!

I'm not too surprised that Jerry Lewis, Dusan Makavajev, Artavazd Peleshian, King Hu, and Ousmane Sembene failed to have films on the list.

But I'm pretty shocked that Pasolini is completely absent.

Anyway a nice list to peruse. 32 films I still look forward to seeing for the first time. Plus another 27 I've never seen in a cinema.

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Penny Dreadful
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:32 am

#110 Post by Penny Dreadful » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:25 am

Gasp!! Slightly over a dozen of my choices ended up on the list, and those were mostly the obvious ones like The Apartment and 2001 (which I dutifully buried since I knew they'd show up). I'm not overly fond of Godard, Fellini, Antonioni, Demy, and the rest of that crew (heresy, I know). The 60's was truly their decade, so I shouldn't be surprised, but still... No Medium Cool or The Haunting! Not even The Manchurian Candidate, The Misfits or Midnight Cowboy, films I thought were shoo-ins?!?! I realize this decade was Europe's time to shine, but Hollywood was pumping them out big and bad too! I can't believe "Lola" is on there and "The Pumpkin Eater" isn't! FIE, I SAY!!

Anyway, this was my top 10:

1. Splendor in the Grass
2. Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!
3. The Virgin Spring
4. Skidoo
5. A Hard Day's Night
6. West Side Story
7. Andrei Rublev
8. Night of the Living Dead
9. Midnight Cowboy
10. Wild in the Streets

I'll defend it to the death if necessary... including Skidoo. ESPECIALLY Skidoo.

PS. Thanks for getting this done, Archie!

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Michael
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm

#111 Post by Michael » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:29 am

Grazie, Archie!

This whole Lists project is a really valuable tool because it continues to help me to discover new films such as Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors which I've never heard of.

I Am Cuba is not on the list! :shock:
Last edited by Michael on Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Michael
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 pm

#112 Post by Michael » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:43 am

I realize this decade was Europe's time to shine, but Hollywood was pumping them out big and bad too!
Yeah but Hollywood pumped a lot bigger and badder in the next decade. So the '70s list will make up for it.

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kieslowski_67
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#113 Post by kieslowski_67 » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:54 am

"Gospel according to St. Matthew" did not even make the top 100 list!? :oops:

Thanks for the great job Archie. Now when are we gonna do the 70s list?

yoshimori
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#114 Post by yoshimori » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:34 am

Penny Dreadful wrote:Slightly over a dozen of my choices ended up on the list, and those were mostly the obvious ones!
This time, unfortunately, I've seen all 101 of the films, so the list is less useful for me than the prior ones. And I suspect as we move forward in time and as more and more people submit lists, the results will be increasingly conservative.

fwiw, then, here are some of the films from my top twenty that didn't make the list, which means either that (sadly) not many have seen them or that (crushing blow to my taste) they didn't care for them. If the former... Enjoy!

Franju Thomas the Impostor, Matsumoto Funeral Parade of Roses, Resnais Muriel, Conner "Breakaway", Paradjanov Color of Pomegranates, Robbe-Grillet Trans-Europ-Express

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Andre Jurieu
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#115 Post by Andre Jurieu » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:51 am

Penny Dreadful wrote:Not even The Manchurian Candidate
#62 with a score of 124.

I haven't participated in these at all and I doubt I will, but after all these lists for each decade are done, why don't we have 1 last list for the Top 100 Forgotten Films. The same rules could apply but just have it span across the past century.

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Penny Dreadful
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:32 am

#116 Post by Penny Dreadful » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:35 am

#62 with a score of 124.
Hmm. I scanned the list a few times looking for that one, but I guess I missed it somehow. So just imagine I typed "What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?" in that last post instead of "The Manchurian Candidate".
This time, unfortunately, I've seen all 101 of the films, so the list is less useful for me than the prior ones. And I suspect as we move forward in time and as more and more people submit lists, the results will be increasingly conservative.
Yeah, I'm also more interested in those lesser-known films.

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lord_clyde
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#117 Post by lord_clyde » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:08 pm

How Batman! The Movie didn't make the list I will never understand. Granted it was my number 50, but c'mon folks! It's a classic!

Anyway, nice to see the list finally complete. Give me a deadline and I'll get right to work on that 70s list!

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Kambei
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#118 Post by Kambei » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:19 pm

kieslowski_67 wrote:"Gospel according to St. Matthew" did not even make the top 100 list!? :oops:
I can only imagine it is because his movies are not readily available as R1 DVDs. I suspect that Theo Angelopulos will have a similarly hard time breaking into the 70s list. :(

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Simon
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#119 Post by Simon » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:39 pm

It's normal that the list ended up looking mostly like the standard canon. Everyone probably sent a few personnal favorites but these are usually buried by the common choices, like in the Sight & Sound poll.

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benm
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#120 Post by benm » Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:55 pm

many of pasolini's films are available in R1 from the Pasolini Foundation of Rome

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Michael
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#121 Post by Michael » Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:22 pm

"Gospel according to St. Matthew" did not even make the top 100 list!?
I could say the same thing about Mamma Roma. Salo will definitely be on my '70s list.

What Ever Happened To Baby Jane? is nowhere to be found on the '60s list. I simply can't believe it! I have to say that it's really great to see Cleo From 5 to 7 ranked very high.

So Archie, are you going to move on to the 70s list?

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kieslowski_67
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#122 Post by kieslowski_67 » Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:35 pm

Simon wrote:It's normal that the list ended up looking mostly like the standard canon. Everyone probably sent a few personnal favorites but these are usually buried by the common choices, like in the Sight & Sound poll.
Actually after I visited the list again, it looks more like a Criterion who's who list, adding some usual suspects and a little spice here and there.

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kieslowski_67
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#123 Post by kieslowski_67 » Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:40 pm

Kambei wrote:
kieslowski_67 wrote:"Gospel according to St. Matthew" did not even make the top 100 list!? :oops:
I can only imagine it is because his movies are not readily available as R1 DVDs. I suspect that Theo Angelopulos will have a similarly hard time breaking into the 70s list. :(
Then I am lucky to have the 4 Japanese Theo box sets in my private collection. His 'traveling players', 'landscape in the mist" and "eternity and a day" will definitely be on my top 10, or 20 list for the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

And I wish that I will see Kusturica's name (underground, time of the Gypsies, when father was away) on the 80s and 90s list.

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Michael
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#124 Post by Michael » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:05 pm

And I wish that I will see Kusturica's name (underground, time of the Gypsies, when father was away) on the 80s and 90s list.
I will make sure to put Underground on my '90 list..(in the top ten). It's among the most majestic films I've seen.

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Rufus T. Firefly
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#125 Post by Rufus T. Firefly » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:58 am

Michael wrote:So Archie, are you going to move on to the 70s list?
I'm willing to do it, but it is time-consuming so I don't want to do it right away. If you guys can wait a month then I'll do it, but if you can't wait then someone else can take over.

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