The Lists Project

[Miguel]

These are all the 1960s films which were on two or more lists but didn't make it into the top 101. I note most of the 'missing' movies mentioned are here.

Thanks, Archie. This is a far more interesting list.

[Matt]

Did anyone--ANYONE--put Scorpio Rising on their list?

[Michael]

Did anyone--ANYONE--put Scorpio Rising on their list?

Scorpio Rising's synopsis sounds absolutely perfect but I can't seem to locate it in any format anywhere. I've been searching for it for years. If I did, then it would most certainly make it on my list.

[Lino]

I have a copy I sort of "obtained" through emule. But as God is my witness I promise I will buy the DVD whenever - if ever - it comes out, be it through Fantoma or anyone, really.

Oh, and the film is really great as well. For the Tom of Finland sort of guy, that is.

[Michael]

For the Tom of Finland sort of guy, that is.

Is that you, Matt?

[Matt]

Well, I suppose. But it's really just because watching Jesus cavort around to "He's a Rebel" cracks me up to no end. I also love the homoerotic subversion of Li'l Abner or whatever the hell comic strip is in it.

[Hrossa]

I guess I should at least make an attempt to direct people to the Defend Your Darlings thread, which is somewhat delapidated but not entirely unhospitable. I'd like to see a defense of Skidoo there or any other titles the were shunned if people feel the urge.

[zedz]

Did anyone--ANYONE--put Scorpio Rising on their list?

It was my number 6, and I'm frankly amazed that nobody else voted for it. That was the big surprise exclusion for me.

I wish I could say this was an interesting list, but frankly it's as dull as I expected. I'm particularly depressed by the over-representation of Godard, Kubrick and Fellini, but that's probably because none of them figured in my fifty. (They each had a single film on my initial list, but with various revisions they all ended up somewhere in the sixties).

The only pleasant surprise for me was the high ranking of Cleo, the only real underdog in the top 50.

Less than half of my selections ended up on the final list, and 18 of those were orphans. Many of the orphans were unsurprising exclusions, being obscure or hard to see, but I was surprised nobody else voted for Scorpio Rising (no. 6), the Beckett / Buster Film (no. 30), Paris nous appartient (no. 38 - all that Godard and NO Rivette?), Double Suicide (no. 39) or The Shooting (no. 46 - I guess tedcogs didn't submit his list).

I voted for three Pasolinis, and it would have been four if the last minute capricious insertion of Love Is Colder Than Death at 49 hadn't bumped The Gospel to 51. Still that probably wouldn't have been enough to get it into the magic 101.

No forehead-slapping oversights for me this time when I see what others opted for, but there was a small pang that if I'd found room for Loves of a Blonde, waiting hopefully in my mid-fifties, it could have made a difference.

If I have time, I'll follow Hrossa's suggestion and defend my many darlings in the appropriate thread. For the record, my top 20 were:
Au Hasard Balthazar
L'Eclisse
Andrey Rublyov
Shadows of Our Forgotten Ancestors
A Quiet Week in the House
Scorpio Rising
The Round-Up
Le Samourai
L'Enfance nue
La Jetee
Signs of Life
Diary of a Shinjuku Thief
Dog Star Man
Simon of the Desert
Pigsty
Il Posto
Playtime
Gertrud
Tokyo Olympiad
Persona

[GringoTex]

60s list by director:

Godard - 9
Bunuel - 5
Fellini- 5
Antonioni - 4
Bergman - 4
Suzuki - 4
Demy - 3
Hitchcock - 3
Kubrick - 3
Leone - 3

I think the abundance of Godard films is due to the fact that he's everybody's favorite director from the 60s and yet there's no consensus about his best films.

[backstreetsbackalright]

I think the abundance of Godard films is due to the fact that he's everybody's favorite director from the 60s and yet there's no consensus about his best films.

Or because he was so prolific. Compare to say, Antonioni, and Antonioni's 5 is more impressive, as that accounts for basically everything he did in the 60s.

[Andre Jurieu]

Yet no one is complaining about Antonioni and Bunuel being over-represented.

I have to say I love the fact that this list is so "conventional" despite only having a dozen or so entries. Perhaps this little exercise will help some people appreciate the effort that goes into the Sight & Sound list a bit more and curtail some of the criticism that arises every decade (but probably not).

[kieslowski_67]

Not sure how many Suzukis would have ended up on the list if not for the attention he got from Criterion. Oops, I forgot that this is the Criterion message board and the voting outcome should show meaningful correlation with the Criterion releases (so far).

[Kambei]

Let's also not overlook the very high placing of Playtime. Whilst it is widely regarded as a classic, our positioning of it at #5 is far higher than i have ever seen anywhere else. We ARE individuals.

[Gregory]

Below are some of mine that didn`t make the cut. I`m amazed at some of these for which I was the only one to vote. Shirley Clarke is still amazingly underrecognized. The Connection is even available on DVD now, but seemingly few people run across it.

Memories of Underdevelopment (Gutierrez Alea, 1968), Deus e o Diabo na Terra do Sol/Black God, White Devil (Rocha, 1964) Lucia (Humberto Solas, 1968), Hour of the Furnaces (Solanas, 1968), Vietnam: In the Year of the Pig (de Antonio, 1968), Burn! (Pontecorvo, 1969), The Chase (Penn, 1966), Human Condition 3 (Kobayashi, 1961), The Connection (Clarke, 1962), The Cool World (Clarke, 1964), Portrait of Jason (Clarke, 1967), Salvatore Giuliano (Rosi, 1962), And This is Free (Shea, 1964), The Spy Who Came In From the Cold (Ritt, 1965), Salesman (the Maysles 1969), To Die in Madrid (Frederik Rossif, 1963), Shop on Main Street (Kadar/Klos, 1965), Fail-Safe (Lumet, 1964), Fellini Satyricon (aka Satyricon) (Fellini, 1969), Songs (Brakhage, 1964-69), The White Rose (Conner, 1967)

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Satyricon is there. #77.

[lord_clyde]

Not sure how many Suzukis would have ended up on the list if not for the attention he got from Criterion. Oops, I forgot that this is the Criterion message board and the voting outcome should show meaningful correlation with the Criterion releases (so far).

True, I was first exposed to Branded to Kill and Tokyo Drifter through Criterion (My two favorite Suzukis) but I have known of his work through a crappy vhs of Gate of Flesh, the r1 dvd of Pistol Opera and I have also seen Youth of the Beast, though I can't remember for the life of me how, or where. Anyway, Suzuki was the most represented director on my list, and I would credit that to Criterion making his titles readily available.

[Michael]

After negitotating with Archie Leach, we've reached an agreement for me to take it on with the '70s list. I might continue with the '80s and so on...will see.

So please send your '70s list to me. I will give you one month, meaning that the deadline is September 18th. Let me know if you want it done sooner or even later.

Looking forward to doing this. Thanks!

[kieslowski_67]

After negitotating with Archie Leach, we've reached an agreement for me to take it on with the '70s list. I might continue with the '80s and so on...will see.

So please send your '70s list to me. I will give you one month, meaning that the deadline is September 18th. Let me know if you want it done sooner or even later. Looking forward to doing this. Thanks!

Thanks, I will probably mail you my 70s and 80s lists this week.

Two general questions: Will mini TV series count ("crown of the jewel" and BBC's 95 version of Austin's 'pride and prejudice' come to my mind)?

Should I group 'a short film about killing' and 'a short film about love' along with 'Dekalog'? And I guess that I have to break 'three colors' into three different movies?

Thanks!

[Michael]

Take a look at what matt wrote earlier:

TV movies (even those run over successive evenings) and TV specials are okay. No epsiodic television. Of course, this is going to make everyone's list-making even more difficult, and I pity the poor person stuck with compiling the lists for the '70s, '80s, and '90s (and '00s, if we do that).

I prefer to stick to that.

I think that Three Colors should be treated as chapters, episodes, or whatever, not as a whole since each one of the three films was released inidividually. Now about The Dekalog. I'm not quite sure. Were A Short Film About Killing and A Short Film About Love released separately from The Dekalog? I think we should view The Dekalog as a whole since it was directed by one man unlike Boccaccio 70s which had four different directors. Even though The Dekalog was originally released as a TV series in Poland, it was later released at various theaters in major cities so I think that makes it an exception.

[Andre Jurieu]

For what it's worth, here's what the original rules stated:

4. Serials will be counted as one film. Films like Ivan the Terrible and Die Niebelungen will be considered one film. Trilogies such as the Apu Trilogy, the Godfather trilogy, and the Three Colors trilogy will be counted as three different films, and must be separated as such. Any other questions should be sent to [person who is compiling the list], and [person who is compiling the list] will reply.

[kieslowski_67]

Take a look at what matt wrote earlier:

TV movies (even those run over successive evenings) and TV specials are okay. No epsiodic television. Of course, this is going to make everyone's list-making even more difficult, and I pity the poor person stuck with compiling the lists for the '70s, '80s, and '90s (and '00s, if we do that).

I prefer to stick to that.

I think that Three Colors should be treated as chapters, episodes, or whatever, not as a whole since each one of the three films was released inidividually. Now about The Dekalog. I'm not quite sure. Were A Short Film About Killing and A Short Film About Love released separately from The Dekalog? I think we should view The Dekalog as a whole since it was directed by one man unlike Boccaccio 70s which had four different directors. Even though The Dekalog was originally released as a TV series in Poland, it was later released at various theaters in major cities so I think that makes it an exception.

My original concern is that 'a short film about killing' and 'a short film about love' (two of my favorite movies in the 80s) used a lot of material Kieslowski used in 'Dekalog'. As such, I am not sure whether it's proper to list them separately from 'Dekalog' (which will be #2 on my top 50s list from the 80s).

[Michael]

My original concern is that 'a short film about killing' and 'a short film about love' (two of my favorite movies in the 80s) used a lot of material Kieslowski used in 'Dekalog'. As such, I am not sure whether it's proper to list them separately from 'Dekalog' (which will be #2 on my top 50s list from the 80s).

I just checked imdb and A Short Film About Killing and A Short Film About Love were actually released as films so as far as including them on the list, I don't see why not. How about this: Killing and Love = two separate films and The Dekalog = one film? If you want to list all three, then go for it.

[King of Kong]

My original concern is that 'a short film about killing' and 'a short film about love' (two of my favorite movies in the 80s) used a lot of material Kieslowski used in 'Dekalog'. As such, I am not sure whether it's proper to list them separately from 'Dekalog' (which will be #2 on my top 50s list from the 80s).

I just checked imdb and A Short Film About Killing and A Short Film About Love were actually released as films so as far as including them on the list, I don't see why not. How about this: Killing and Love = two separate films and The Dekalog = one film? If you want to list all three, then go for it.

I'm always in this pickle when it comes to the two Short Films. I mean, they are masterpieces in their own right, but they're extended versions of the Dekalog films, and as such they are difficult to separate from the "source". I tend to lump all three together as one entry in my lists, which is a little unorthodox...

[kieslowski_67]

My original concern is that 'a short film about killing' and 'a short film about love' (two of my favorite movies in the 80s) used a lot of material Kieslowski used in 'Dekalog'. As such, I am not sure whether it's proper to list them separately from 'Dekalog' (which will be #2 on my top 50s list from the 80s).

I just checked imdb and A Short Film About Killing and A Short Film About Love were actually released as films so as far as including them on the list, I don't see why not. How about this: Killing and Love = two separate films and The Dekalog = one film? If you want to list all three, then go for it.

I'm always in this pickle when it comes to the two Short Films. I mean, they are masterpieces in their own right, but they're extended versions of the Dekalog films, and as such they are difficult to separate from the "source". I tend to lump all three together as one entry in my lists, which is a little unorthodox...

It's up to Michael to decide what we should do in this case. I tried to lump them together at first, and then decided to list them separately after his recent post.

[Michael]

The way I see this is: if Killing and Love are the extended versions of the Dekalog films, then they are not 100% the same as the Dekalog films. Like King of Kong said, Killing and Love are small masterpieces, aren't they good enough to stand alone as separate films? I mean there are even separate DVD and VHS releases just for those two titles alone. Keep in mind that nothing's really finalized or etched in stone. There's plenty of time to discuss this situation before the 80s list comes along and I hope by then we will come to the agreement.