1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 2)

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Yojimbo
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#301 Post by Yojimbo » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:27 pm

domino harvey wrote:Reds Features a pretty good first two hours or so before it devolves into a variation of a romance from another film. All the complexities and elliptical storytelling of the first half is traded for train station reunions and sad deaths. What a shame. The talking heads are superb and better than even the good parts of the movie. The Hackman cameo was amusing and Jack Nicholson's mustache earned his Oscar nom.
'Reds' fits squarely into the 'worthy but dull' category.
Interestingly enough I had just read John Reed's 'Ten Days That Shook The World' when I read that Beatty was making 'Reds'.
It can't hold a candle to Eisenstein's magnificent 'October'

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Cold Bishop
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#302 Post by Cold Bishop » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:34 am

Three more with a few days left:

Trouble in Mind (Alan Rudolph, 1985) Available on DVD in the UK
This, not Blade Runner, is the ultimate future-noir of the decade. While it may not have the benefit of Blade Runner’s amazing sets, Rudolph’s future works well enough despite his limited budget: armed militias roam the street, civil disobedience is rampant, and Pynchon-like messages mark the landscape. Alan Rudolph also crafts maybe the best film of the entire 1980s wave of neo-noirs. This is his valentine to the genre, and a movie that seems to speak exclusively in the language of film history. Valentine may be right, since despite its sordid assortment of losers and lowlifes and its at times explicit violence, the movie has a lyrical, romantic quality to it. There’s a plot straight of a hard-boiled novel in there, but that is not so much important as are the characters. Always the Altman acolyte, the strength of the movie comes from the collection of people that revolve around the film’s Wanda Café: Keith Carradine, Geneviève Bujold, Lori Singer, Joe Morton, George Kirby and in the lead, Kris Kristofferson. Often ragged on for his acting, both this and Heaven’s Gate should have launched him as a leading man. The most terrific at all, however, is Divine in his only non-drag performance, a surprising, menacing, off-kilter turn as the ruthless gangster Hilly Blue. A bizarre and haunting film with an incredibly unique atmosphere. I wish I could make room for Choose Me, Made in Heaven and The Moderns as well.

Runaway Train (Andrei Konchalovsky, 1985) Available on R1 DVD
Both the Brute Force and the Wages of Fear of the 1980s. Like Dassin’s film, it’s a tough, visceral and ultimately humane look at the dehumanizing aspects of prison as well as man’s relentless fight for freedom. It resembles Clouzot’s both superficially – like the trucks of those film, the train in question creates a unbearably tense scenario of unrelenting danger - but also in the desperation of the characters, the barren isolation of the setting, and in the existential philosophy that informs the story. It may be a shame that Akira Kurosawa never managed to make the film in the 60s with Henry Fonda and Peter Falk as it was planned. Yet, in the hands of another émigré, Andrei Konchalovsky, working with a rewrite by Eddie Bunker, we’re compensated with a film that doesn’t waste any of the potential Kurosawa must have seen in the story. It’s a film that practices the lost art of the action film, balancing the suspenseful mechanics of its narrative with a driving philosophy and compelling character study, all created with intelligence and integrity behind the camera. As an action-adventure film, Konchalovsky has a superior control in crafting the films spectacular set pieces. As a thriller, not a scene goes by that escapes the film’s palpable tension. Yet both of these aspects only work because we care about the characters. Jon Voight is here at a crossroads: the era that gave him his best work is coming to an end, and the one which will catch him sleepwalking through embarrassing dreck is approaching. Not only is Runaway Train possibly his last great role, it’s possibly his greatest, a fierce, animalistic performance of frightening intensity as a man who’s last remaining link to humanity and sanity is the desire for freedom. Eric Roberts, as the egotistical, dimwitted partner in over his head, is also great, equally obnoxious and vulnerable. This role is the last in the triptych, including Star 80 and The Pope of Greenwhich Village, which should have launched him into stardom. Both got well deserved Oscar nominations. While the Siberiade may be better known among this board and certainly has more art-house cred, this may be Konchalovsky’s best film. That he slid down into Hollywood trash like Tango & Cash and Homer and Eddie is unfortunate; this is the rare film that balances the showmanship of mainstream, commercial product with a real artistry. An action-adventure film in the tradition of not only Dassin and Clouzot, but also Hawks, Huston, Kurosawa and Leone, and with the tides changing to shallow pyrotechnics, its one of the last of its kind.

The Stunt Man (Richard Rush, 1980) Available on R1 DVD
This is a film trapped between the commercial and the art film; it proved too difficult and cerebral for the mainstream audience, and it was still too much of an action film for it to go over with the arthouses. And while this tightrope walk does provide the film with its own problems, it works wonderfully as a synthesis between these two worlds which have since become more divided. It’s a movie about mind games, puzzles and illusion, about the separation between cinema and real-life and fantasy and reality, about the mechanics of the cinema laid bare, and about paranoia. It’s also a crime film, action film, screwball satire, romance, and on and on. Peter O’Toole gives a career best performance, and Steve Railsbeck is so good it’s weird that he never went on to do any thing major again. The same can be said of Rush, who seems to have vanished off the face of the earth after this labor of love, save for one unfortunate misfire. Sometime Rush’s antic comedy can become a little too broad, and the film isn’t exactly subtle about its intentions, but the film thrives off a wonderful kinetic energy which makes it a feast for the eyes and ears. A wonderful house of games which is always a delight to watch. Unfortunate that it was ignored by its audience in its day and age. It deserves much more than just a cult audience.
Last edited by Cold Bishop on Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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zedz
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#303 Post by zedz » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:29 pm

Happy New Year 80s voters!

You have until the fifteeneth to submit your lists to me via PM.

Remember:
- Your 50 favourite films of the decade, ranked in order of preference.
- IMDB date is the final arbiter, even when it's plainly wrong.
- Experimental films, shorts, music videos, TV movies and mini-series are all eligible. TV series or episodes of same are not.

I've had a couple of ineligible submissions so far (one unranked with over 50 titles, the other ranked but with less than 50), so check before you send.

I've collated five lists so far and the initial top ten is the weirdest yet.

American films have dominated (40% of the 187 films nominated), but they have included lots of documentaries (a rare sight in previous lists) and independent films and even a respectable showing for experimental films.

The current top ten is 50% American, including the number one, which is a film I would never have guessed would occupy that spot, even temporarily. Number two, also American, is even more surprising, and completely unavailable on home video, so there's no way it will maintain that position.

Number 3 is another outsider. Non-American and a film and director who didn't appear on the previous iteration of the 80s list at all (but should have).

The two films tied for number four are a very odd couple. They're both English-language: the American title made the top ten last time, but the TV movie didn't make the list at all and I expect it to drop like a stone as voting progresses.

Next up is a documentary that only appeared on two lists but has a combined score of 99 points. Two points behind is another documentary that's appeared on four of the five lists and should therefore have a better chance of lasting the distance. It finished respectably in the top 50 last time and has a much higher profile now.

Number 8 is an old favourite in for the long haul; number 9 is from the most popular director so far, but who knows which of his 80s films will finish ahead (they've all been nominated already - even the ones you hate).

The last on the list is definitely a freak - two strong votes that are conceivably the only two it will receive. Unavailable on DVD, directed by a woman: the perfect anti-shoo-in. I'd say it's fifty-fifty whether it manages to finish in the top 100.

As usual, those who have submitted their list can PM me for the provisional top 10 if they're curious.

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swo17
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#304 Post by swo17 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:25 pm

That has to be the coyest post since that one post by that forum member named after an iconic film character/famous director/meaningless sequence of letters and numbers.

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colinr0380
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#305 Post by colinr0380 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:27 pm

zedz wrote:The last on the list is definitely a freak - two strong votes that are conceivably the only two it will receive. Unavailable on DVD, directed by a woman: the perfect anti-shoo-in. I'd say it's fifty-fifty whether it manages to finish in the top 100.
It had better stay on there! *drunkenly shakes fist* :P

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domino harvey
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#306 Post by domino harvey » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:34 pm

Landscape in the Mist Holy smokes. I didn't think anything could work its way into the top five of my list, but this may very well place there. How had I never heard of it before? The perfect middleground between Tarr and Antonioni, this was a hypnotic, beautiful, wonderful film that contained images I'll never forget.

Come and See "Depressing" doesn't even begin to do justice to the second half of this war film. I'm pretty sure I came close to throwing up during the village sequence. This was a great film, but I can't imagine it has ever gotten repeat viewings from even its most ardent supporters!

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zedz
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#307 Post by zedz » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:30 pm

colinr0380 wrote:
zedz wrote:The last on the list is definitely a freak - two strong votes that are conceivably the only two it will receive. Unavailable on DVD, directed by a woman: the perfect anti-shoo-in. I'd say it's fifty-fifty whether it manages to finish in the top 100.
It had better stay on there! *drunkenly shakes fist* :P
You can get out your saxophone and play 'Strangers in the Night' for all I care - I still reckon it'll be left on the subway come closing time.

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Gregory
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#308 Post by Gregory » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:47 pm

I hope documentaries will continue to make a strong showing. There were so many great ones during this decade that, unfortunately, I won't be able to vote for all the ones I've seen. Les Blank did excellent work very consistently. Atomic Café has been an interesting viewing experience for me, as I've watched it with a large group and we laughed until our sides hurt and tears were in our eyes, but I've watched it alone a few times and it often makes me quite sad, even though it's satirical and irreverent side still comes through. Another documentary that made use of stock footage wittily, and contains a lot of great interviews, is Before Stonewall. In the same historical vein is the masterful Times of Harvey Milk. It's still as important as ever, even though the story it tells is obviously more familiar now. Straight No Chaser is one of the best music documentaries ever made, the kind that fascinates even people who come to it with no previous interest in the music. I think Style Wars equally possesses that rare quality in music-centered films. Antonio Gaudí shows great visual flair, as one would expect from Teshigahara, especially in light of his earlier work on ikebana. The Emperor's Naked Army Marches On -- quite an experience, tragic and funny. I know Michael Moore admires the film, but I think its parallels with Roger and Me are probably coincidental. I was a little surprised that Moore's debut didn't make the cut last time. It was the first film (and for a long time the only one) as far as I know to deal with the enormously important issues of "downsizing" and outsourcing remained very relevant. This film, an intelligent and enjoyable take on this painful and tragic topic, was an important step in making independent, politically-conscious documentaries a force in the public arena, something that nearly everyone today takes for granted. The Panama Connectionis another good one that was relatively widely seen. I still think Roger and Me an excellent film, although I wonder if people's misgivings about Moore's more recent work have caused them to turn their back on it unfairly. I haven't mentioned Sherman's March because I still haven't seen it :oops:, although it looks like it might have a good chance of making the list even without my help.
I've been meaning to see The Architecture of Doom for a long time, and have every expectation that I'll find it fascinating. I ordered it over a week ago and hope it will arrive before deadline.
One final brief remark: I included Mr. Hoover and I in my list of potential underdogs back on page 10 of this thread, but after watching it again, I wouldn't think of putting it on my list. The film isn't really a thorough treatment of De's own life or of Hoover's reign of terror. It's still worth watching, but it's probably the least of his films (there are a couple I haven't seen).
Last edited by Gregory on Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Yojimbo
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#309 Post by Yojimbo » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:51 pm

domino harvey wrote:Landscape in the Mist Holy smokes. I didn't think anything could work its way into the top five of my list, but this may very well place there. How had I never heard of it before? The perfect middleground between Tarr and Antonioni, this was a hypnotic, beautiful, wonderful film that contained images I'll never forget.

Come and See "Depressing" doesn't even begin to do justice to the second half of this war film. I'm pretty sure I came close to throwing up during the village sequence. This was a great film, but I can't imagine it has ever gotten repeat viewings from even its most ardent supporters!
I'll probably watch 'Come and See' again: truly belongs in the pantheon of great Russian War films.
For those who're interested it makes for a great double bill with either Tarkovsky's 'Ivan's Childhood', or Mrs Klimov's 'The Ascent'

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zedz
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#310 Post by zedz » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:12 pm

domino wrote:Landscape in the Mist Holy smokes. I didn't think anything could work its way into the top five of my list, but this may very well place there. How had I never heard of it before? The perfect middleground between Tarr and Antonioni, this was a hypnotic, beautiful, wonderful film that contained images I'll never forget.
I wish I could have included some Angelopoulos on my 80s list, but the only one I've seen (The Beekeeper) was so long ago I can't trust my memory of it. I'm with you in spirit at least!
Gregory wrote:I hope documentaries will continue to make a strong showing. There were so many great ones during this decade that, unfortunately, I won't be able to vote for all the ones I've seen. Les Blank did excellent work very consistently. Atomic Café has been an interesting viewing experience for me, as I've watched it with a large group and we laughed until our sides hurt and tears were in our eyes, but I've watched it alone a few times and it often makes me quite sad, even though it's satirical and irreverent side still comes through.

An even more affecting documentary from the age of nuclear paranoia is Dennis O'Rourke's Half Life, which was edged off my list this time around. It's an expose of the machinations behind the exposure of Marshall Islanders to nuclear falloput in the 1950s (the US government seemed to figure that these guys would make great guinea pigs, and who'd care if some or all of them didn't survive the experiment?) and it's terrifying. O'Rourke's gone on to some obnoxious grandstanding (on and off film), but this is a great documentary. He was also involved in First Contact, the first film in Robin Anderson and Bob Connolly's excellent Papua New Guinea trilogy. Their gob-smacking, hilarious 1996 Rats in the Ranks (about local body politics in Sydney) will definitely be in my 90s list.
Gregory wrote:I was a little surprised that Moore's debut didn't make the cut last time. It was the first film (and for a long time the only one) as far as I know to deal with the enormously important issues of "downsizing" and outsourcing remained very relevant.
I don't want to get into a debate on Moore, but 'firsties' in this area probably go to Tony Buba's Lightning Over Braddock: A Rustbowl Fantasy (1988), which I'm sure Moore must have been aware of (it's sort of a cross between Roger and Me and My Winnipeg). Surely there must be a few straighter documentaries that tackled these issues at the time?

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swo17
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#311 Post by swo17 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:34 am

domino harvey wrote:Landscape in the Mist Holy smokes. I didn't think anything could work its way into the top five of my list, but this may very well place there. How had I never heard of it before? The perfect middleground between Tarr and Antonioni, this was a hypnotic, beautiful, wonderful film that contained images I'll never forget.
I'm glad you liked it! Sounds like it may even place slightly higher on your list than mine.

And zedz, I implore you, you still have four days to see it. No pressure, but I did watch (and love) both Terrorizers and Sherman's March... :-"

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Gregory
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#312 Post by Gregory » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:14 am

Simply awful sentence construction in that bit I wrote about Atomic Café! That's what I get for rushing. Same goes for my claim about Roger and Me. Come to think of it, I myself saw a pretty rare feature documentary from the 1970s, I believe, on the crisis of de-industrialization in Detroit, though I can't remember the title. It had some wonderfully intense speechifying from a couple of the autoworkers who were radicalized (or just galvanized perhaps) by what was taking place. As for Lightning Over Braddock, I haven't heard of it so thanks, zedz, for calling it to my attention. Unfortunately, it seems quite difficult to get ahold of it.
I saw a feature length documentary back in the early '90s on the Marshall Islands tests but I can't remember the title of it. I only part of it I remember was that upon inspection of the islands after the blast, some poor cadet put a pebble in his pocket as a souvenir. It showed him being interviewed years later with an absolutely enormous cancerous growth on the leg where the pocket had been! These tests, the one on Bikini Island in particular, are covered briefly in Atomic Café, of course.

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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#313 Post by Murdoch » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:02 am

I'm going to add to the praise for Three Crowns of the Sailor, truly one of the most mesmerizing films of the 1980s and it has fast become one of my all-time favorites. I was reminded of my first viewing of Inland Empire while watching the film, the visuals were so incredibly breathtaking and the story so rich that I was in a state of ecstasy throughout. Ruiz knows how to create dazzling visuals and his tight framing of shots produce a sense of isolation within certain scenes that make Three Crowns into a claustrophobic dream. I implore anyone who hasn't seen it yet to buy the Ruiz boxset from Blaq Out and check it out before the deadline. Thanks a lot, zedz, for introducing me to this!

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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#314 Post by zedz » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:07 pm

swo17 wrote: And zedz, I implore you, you still have four days to see it. No pressure, but I did watch (and love) both Terrorizers and Sherman's March... :-"
Hey, I've been wanting to see it for 20 years, so I don't think it's going to happen in four days! But good news about McElwee - it's only had three votes (out of ten lists submitted so far) and is still hanging in at number 11 overall, since its average placing on those three lists is number one. (The White Chick is still awaiting your vote before she even qualifies.)

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swo17
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#315 Post by swo17 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:36 pm

Four days is plenty of time to move over here and acquire one of five copies of Landscape available from the Salt Lake City Public Library system. How bad do you really want to see it? :wink:

Actually, it's precisely because I want to rewatch Terrorizers (and a couple other titles) that I haven't submitted my list just yet.

P.S. For a second there, I thought you were talking about a different White Chick. :oops:

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Yojimbo
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#316 Post by Yojimbo » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:50 pm

Cold Bishop wrote:Three more with a few days left:

Trouble in Mind (Alan Rudolph, 1985) Available on DVD in the UK
This, not Blade Runner, is the ultimate future-noir of the decade. While it may not have the benefit of Blade Runner’s amazing sets, Rudolph’s future works well enough despite his limited budget: armed militias roam the street, civil disobedience is rampant, and Pynchon-like messages mark the landscape. Alan Rudolph also crafts maybe the best film of the entire 1980s wave of neo-noirs. This is his valentine to the genre, and a movie that seems to speak exclusively in the language of film history. Valentine may be right, since despite its sordid assortment of losers and lowlifes and its at times explicit violence, the movie has a lyrical, romantic quality to it. There’s a plot straight of a hard-boiled novel in there, but that is not so much important as are the characters. Always the Altman acolyte, the strength of the movie comes from the collection of people that revolve around the film’s Wanda Café: Keith Carradine, Geneviève Bujold, Lori Singer, Joe Morton, George Kirby and in the lead, Kris Kristofferson. Often ragged on for his acting, both this and Heaven’s Gate should have launched him as a leading man. The most terrific at all, however, is Divine in his only non-drag performance, a surprising, menacing, off-kilter turn as the ruthless gangster Hilly Blue. A bizarre and haunting film with an incredibly unique atmosphere. I wish I could make room for Choose Me, Made in Heaven and The Moderns as well.

Runaway Train (Andrei Konchalovsky, 1985) Available on R1 DVD
Both the Brute Force and the Wages of Fear of the 1980s. Like Dassin’s film, it’s a tough, visceral and ultimately humane look at the dehumanizing aspects of prison as well as man’s relentless fight for freedom. It resembles Clouzot’s both superficially – like the trucks of those film, the train in question creates a unbearably tense scenario of unrelenting danger - but also in the desperation of the characters, the barren isolation of the setting, and in the existential philosophy that informs the story. It may be a shame that Akira Kurosawa never managed to make the film in the 60s with Henry Fonda and Peter Falk as it was planned. Yet, in the hands of another émigré, Andrei Konchalovsky, working with a rewrite by Eddie Bunker, we’re compensated with a film that doesn’t waste any of the potential Kurosawa must have seen in the story. It’s a film that practices the lost art of the action film, balancing the suspenseful mechanics of its narrative with a driving philosophy and compelling character study, all created with intelligence and integrity behind the camera. As an action-adventure film, Konchalovsky has a superior control in crafting the films spectacular set pieces. As a thriller, not a scene goes by that escapes the film’s palpable tension. Yet both of these aspects only work because we care about the characters. Jon Voight is here at a crossroads: the era that gave him his best work is coming to an end, and the one which will catch him sleepwalking through embarrassing dreck is approaching. Not only is Runaway Train possibly his last great role, it’s possibly his greatest, a fierce, animalistic performance of frightening intensity as a man who’s last remaining link to humanity and sanity is the desire for freedom. Eric Roberts, as the egotistical, dimwitted partner in over his head, is also great, equally obnoxious and vulnerable. This role is the last in the triptych, including Star 80 and The Pope of Greenwhich Village, which should have launched him into stardom. Both got well deserved Oscar nominations. While the Commissar may be better known among this board and certainly has more art-house cred, this may be Konchalovsky’s best film. That he slid down into Hollywood trash like Tango & Cash and Homer and Eddie is unfortunate; this is the rare film that balances the showmanship of mainstream, commercial product with a real artistry. An action-adventure film in the tradition of not only Dassin and Clouzot, but also Hawks, Huston, Kurosawa and Leone, and with the tides changing to shallow pyrotechnics, its one of the last of its kind.

The Stunt Man (Richard Rush, 1980) Available on R1 DVD
This is a film trapped between the commercial and the art film; it proved too difficult and cerebral for the mainstream audience, and it was still too much of an action film for it to go over with the arthouses. And while this tightrope walk does provide the film with its own problems, it works wonderfully as a synthesis between these two worlds which have since become more divided. It’s a movie about mind games, puzzles and illusion, about the separation between cinema and real-life and fantasy and reality, about the mechanics of the cinema laid bare, and about paranoia. It’s also a crime film, action film, screwball satire, romance, and on and on. Peter O’Toole gives a career best performance, and Steve Railsbeck is so good it’s weird that he never went on to do any thing major again. The same can be said of Rush, who seems to have vanished off the face of the earth after this labor of love, save for one unfortunate misfire. Sometime Rush’s antic comedy can become a little too broad, and the film isn’t exactly subtle about its intentions, but the film thrives off a wonderful kinetic energy which makes it a feast for the eyes and ears. A wonderful house of games which is always a delight to watch. Unfortunate that it was ignored by its audience in its day and age. It deserves much more than just a cult audience.
I love "Choose Me" which, I suspect, will endure for me as Rudolph's greatest: if you haven't yet seen it, may I also recommend "Remember My Name".
Although I plan to give 'Trouble In Mind' another look I was disappointed with it on my only viewing: too much of it was about mood and look, I thought.
Casting Divine in a non-drag role was a good idea, though.
I thought Kristofferson's iconic performance in Peckinpah's "Pat Garrett and Billy The Kid" should have been enough.

Comparing "Runaway Train" with 'Brute Force' is valid, I think, but after the initial adrenaline rush of the escape and hitching a ride on the train, things went quickly downhill for me,thereafter, although I haven't seen it since its initial cinema release.
I think, though, comparisons with the Aldrich film, "The Emperor Of The North" might be more valid, although I didn't think much of that one either.
Agreed on Eric Roberts': he gave a wonderfully slimy, sleazy characterisation in 'Star 80': (which would make a great double-bill to watch and compare with Willem Dafoe's performance in Schrader's 'Auto-Focus')

I can recall I didn't much care for 'The Stunt Man', and I remember quickly taping over the recording I made
(would make an interesting double bill with another Peter O'Toole film, "My Favourite Year", which I think was released about the same year!)

I hope this doesn't mean we'll be disagreeing on the merits of "The Moon In The Gutter"! :wink:

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domino harvey
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#317 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:03 pm

zedz wrote:
swo17 wrote: And zedz, I implore you, you still have four days to see it. No pressure, but I did watch (and love) both Terrorizers and Sherman's March... :-"
Hey, I've been wanting to see it for 20 years, so I don't think it's going to happen in four days! But good news about McElwee - it's only had three votes (out of ten lists submitted so far) and is still hanging in at number 11 overall, since its average placing on those three lists is number one. (The White Chick is still awaiting your vote before she even qualifies.)
Lest you think I have forsaken you zedz, I saw Sherman's March last week, but my reaction to it is so overwhelmingly negative that it warrants a longer response than I can write right now. But I will weigh-in in the near-future with a proper rebuttal.

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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#318 Post by Gropius » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:07 pm

There are so many gaping holes in the 80s DVD catalogue (especially in Anglo-R2-land) that I feel unqualified to make a list for this round, but intend to submit one anyway. 'Twill be heavy on the Greenaway, probably the filmmaker of the decade in my book (Ruiz is often proposed as a challenger in the same stylistic area, but I've seen none of his pre-90s work yet). Another 80s name frequently paired with Greenaway's is Jarman, whose films might be described as more 'intimate' or 'sympathetic', but they often look like a painter and his friends playing around with a camera to while away the afternoon, lacking Greenaway's classically formal ambitiousness.

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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#319 Post by Cold Bishop » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:09 pm

I'm still trying to squeeze in Sherman's March in the next few days. I don't know how likely it is to make the top half of my list (even if it blows me away, I usually have to let a film sink in before I give it that kind of commitment) there still a few iffy spots near the bottom where it could slide in.

I can also recommend Landscapes in the Mist. Never been as crazy about Angelopoulos as others (and to be fair, I'm still missing a large portion of his filmography) but I remember Landscapes very fondly. Could use a rewatch, but its floating around the lower half of my list.

Did catch They All Laughed, which was a great movie. On first impressions, its a light and fluffy romantic comedy, but its one that's genuinely in love with everything light and fluffy about love. While at first, the Ritter/Stratten and Gazarra/Hepburn plot lines seemed too removed from one another, never coming together in the end as you would expect in such an ensemble film, they provide a necessary counterpoint to one another. One is youthful and exuberant, the other older and elegaic. One is filmed in highly energetic set pieces, the other in long walks and talks. One is marked by promising beginnings, the other goes apart as quickly as it comes together. Stratten and Hepburn are both great in their respective roles, hitting the perfect notes of bittersweet resignation. John Ritter shows he could of become a great comedic star, perfectly embodying Bogdonavich's sweetness and optimism. For a movie created for her, the film surprisingly doesn't give Stratten much room to show her talent. Instead it takes the lovesick voyeuristic viewpoint of Charles, admiring her beauty and radiance from afar. She certainly fits that bill, although I still can't tell whether should would have gone on to a great career. Patti Hansen and Blaine Novak are great, and its disappointing neither went on to anything else. The real breakthrough, however, is the always undervalued Collen Camp who becomes the ultimate expression of Bogdonavich's post-Hawksian screwball aspirations. Wonderful film, maybe too light for me to like it as much as some of the greater works of the decade, but its nice to know that Bogdonavich's career didn't end with Saint Jack.

And I'll also echo the love for dominoharvey's The Purple Rose of Cairo and Détective.
Yojimbo wrote:I hope this doesn't mean we'll be disagreeing on the merits of "The Moon In The Gutter"! :wink:
Well, the mood and look comment about Trouble might. Then again, anyone who recognizes the talents of Alan Rudolph is a partner-in-arms to me.

As for Runaway Train and Stunt Man, I like them for what they are: superior commercial action films. You can hardly talk about the decade without dipping your toes into the vast pool of mainstream cinema (The Adventures of Baron Munchhausen and Who Framed Roger Rabbit? are both making my list).
Last edited by Cold Bishop on Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:52 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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domino harvey
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#320 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:12 pm

Cold Bishop wrote:IWhile at first, the Ritter/Stratten and Gazarra/Hepburn plot lines seemed to removed from one another, never coming together in the end as you would expect in such an ensemble film, they provide a necessary counterpoint to one another. One is youthful and exuberant, the other older and elegaic. One is filmed in highly energetic set pieces, the other in long walks and talks. One is marked by promising beginnings, the other goes apart as quickly as it comes together.
Great observations Cold Bishop! I'm glad to hear you dug the film for what it is

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zedz
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#321 Post by zedz » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:40 pm

domino harvey wrote:Lest you think I have forsaken you zedz, I saw Sherman's March last week, but my reaction to it is so overwhelmingly negative that it warrants a longer response than I can write right now. But I will weigh-in in the near-future with a proper rebuttal.
I can definitely see how it would be polarizing. I look forward to thrashing it out in the Defend Your Darlings (and Assault Other People's) Thread.

I think the 80s in general might be polarizing. There are a lot of films being championed that I really don't like (to the extent that I can't even understand their appeal) and the voting seems to be radically split for all but a handful of films - e.g. certain films getting consistent top 20 placings by one contingent but missing entirely from other lists (where availability isn't an issue).

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Cold Bishop
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#322 Post by Cold Bishop » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:03 pm

zedz wrote:
domino harvey wrote:I think the 80s in general might be polarizing. There are a lot of films being championed that I really don't like (to the extent that I can't even understand their appeal)
I look forward to your thrashings as well, zedz.

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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#323 Post by SoyCuba » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:48 pm

Glad you liked Come and See, domino. I can certainly see how you found it depressing and even difficult to watch, as the film is rather extreme in every its portrayal of evil and the despair of the victims. I'd describe the film as nightmarish, especially as the plot mechanics often seem to work on a dream logic. I myself have seen the film twice and wouldn't have a problem watching it again. The funny thing is that some films do affect me emotionally very strongly such as The Passion of Joan of Arc, which literally made me shed tears for most of the running time but I've never found it difficult to watch films with strong violence or extremely negative view of life, or the feeling of being depressed by films unpleasant. Perhaps it has to do with my rather cynical personality.

As for They All Lauhed, I definitely did like it but I feel I should watch it once more before the deadline as english not being my first language the lack of subtitles made me miss some of the dialoque. I've had no problems with older films I've watched without subtitles and hoped I would be fine with this film as well but unfortunately the film often has backround noise that makes the dialogue somewhat difficult to understand. I did understand the plot and agree on what you said about the film and its strenghts on the film's thread but thought the film was perhaps too long and all of the material didn't work equally well. So it won't be making my list unless I like it better on the second viewing, for which I hopefully will find time.

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domino harvey
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#324 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:29 pm

It's due Midnight tomorrow, not tonite, right?

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swo17
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Re: 1980s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project)

#325 Post by swo17 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:34 pm

Woah, I assumed we would have until the end of the day on Thursday, the 15th. 8-[

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