Auteur List: Fritz Lang - Discussion and Defenses

[domino harvey]

Will deal on a case by case basis, but there's a big difference between this and the Thing / Corvette K-225-- Lang walked off the set early on and who knows what if anything stuck around in the pic. And c'mon, no one's voting for Moontide in a top ten even if it was eligible

[knives]

I haven't seen it yet so I don't know. Was just looking at Matrix's comments and then noticed it wasn't on the master list.

[domino harvey]

I don't see any mention of it in this thread. I do see plenty of discussion of Moonfleet

[Rayon Vert]

I never bothered watching Moontide precisely because Lang's work on it was limited. According to the McGilligan bio, Lang shot for nearly 3 weeks, from Nov 24 to Dec 12, 1941. The filming resumed 3 days later with Mayo, until Feb. 7, 1942.

[domino harvey]

Not worth seeking out for any reason, really. Here's my thumbnail from the Noir thread:

Moontide (Archie Mayo 1942) Fox tries and fails to do something with Jean Gabin in this silly but mildly diverting tale of an alcoholic bait salesman who may or may not have killed someone while on a drunken bender. Notable perhaps only for the scene in which Thomas Mitchell snaps a wet towel at a nude Claude Rains.

[knives]

I don't see any mention of it in this thread. I do see plenty of discussion of Moonfleet

That's what I get for having terrible reading comprehension.

[DarkImbecile]

While I agree with the upthread sentiment that the class-misfit comedy elements with Joan Bennett are the weakest parts of Man Hunt, the near-silent hunting/chase scenes and the emotionally raw climax more than make up for them.

Bennett and Pidgeon do well with their roles, but Sanders' insidiousness is the stand out element, especially as he so closely represents a corrupted version of Pidgeon's aristocratic airs, which he eventually slices through in forcing Pidgeon to acknowledge his own murderous intent. I don't think there's anything ambiguous about that intent, by the way: his too-late clarity about violently ending the threat of Hitler's reign feels pretty clearly designed to echo the real world UK's inability to similarly address that threat.

Visually, several scenes in Man Hunt felt more iconically noirish than anything in The Big Heat, particularly the Underground chase, the interrogation scenes in Germany, and the early night and fog chase that leads Pidgeon to Bennett's apartment.

I'm not sure what else to say about it but the epilogue rubbed me the wrong way.

I think the major problem with this coda was the narration; Pidgeon's jump into Germany might still might have felt tacked on, but it would have worked dramatically (especially when paired with his nightmarish recuperation scenes) without any articulation of what he was doing.

On that ending, do others think that

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Bennett's Jerry wouldn't have been killed if the film hadn't been geared as a pro-war piece? I fully expected her to be used as a hostage to force Thorndike to sign the false confession, and even after Sanders said he had thrown her out a window I half-expected it to be a lie and for him to rescue or otherwise be united with her after escaping. Certainly her death seems thematically tied to the even more heavily emphasized thoughtless endangering of women by a male 'hero' in The Big Heat a dozen years later, but in 1941 I doubt if the murder of the innocent female lead would have been allowed without its usefulness in underlining a rallying cry of resistance.

[Rayon Vert]

If memory serves me, one of the reasons I prefer Scarlet Street to La Chienne is that the female lead seems more evil in the Lang film

Man Hunt has actually grown on me quite a bit. (...) I really like Joan Bennett in this film. I don't have a problem with her accent or how they had to obscure the fact that she's a prostitute, it all adds to the charm of an outcast who never expected to be seen as important in the grand scheme of things.

I'm listening to the Metropolis commentary by Kalat and Rosenbaum, and they talk about Harbou's responsibility in making the women in that film either virgins or whores, and then add that half of that element left Lang's oeuvre when they separated and Lang went to Hollywood: thereafter all the women are "whores"! (Rancho Notorious, The Big Heat, Clash By Night, Human Desire, Scarlet Street, etc.). Except in Man Hunt where Bennett is at once virgin and whore... (Of course that's leaving out the sweet Silvia Sidney characters for one thing.)

[domino harvey]

... and Anne Baxter in the Blue Gardenia. That whole film is a refutation of their thesis, which is a cheap shot even if it is funny

[matrixschmatrix]

I think one of them commented that Lang, insofar as he subscribed to that dichotomy, thought the 'whores' to be the better people- and I think Lang's sympathy and empathy for women who are other than pure is something that DOES run very strongly through his American work, very much to its benefit.

[Rayon Vert]

Human Desire. Good but not great. I liked it a lot less than the first time. Maybe that's because I very recently saw the Renoir film again and, even if it's nice that the ending is quite different, for one thing the Ford character is much less complex and interesting, outright dull for the first half - which perhaps relates to what hearthesilence said about Ford a bit higher up. On the other hand, Grahame is particularly fine - in fact she steals the film.

I think one of them commented that Lang, insofar as he subscribed to that dichotomy, thought the 'whores' to be the better people- and I think Lang's sympathy and empathy for women who are other than pure is something that DOES run very strongly through his American work, very much to its benefit.

That's an insightful observation, matrix, and it rings true according to my rewatches so far. Bennett in The Woman in the Window was characterized as somewhat of a "loose" woman but she is nevertheless made sympathetic throughout. Similarly, Grahame in Human Desire is set up somewhat as a trollop/sex doll - the sometimes annoying score really plays this up at the beginning - but part of the strength of the film's ending is that she comes across as a sincere, vulnerable, tragic figure.

Ministry of Fear. Another rewatch. I'm a bit of a sucker for this type of WWII spy material, but despite some atmosphere and some strong scenes (the village fête at the beginning), it's a bit of a poor man's Foreign Correspondent. The film never really gets exciting like it should and is generally visually pleasing without being as impressive or appealing as, say, Man Hunt. Again, pleasant, more than serviceable, but I wouldn't rank it amongst the very best of Lang's Hollywood output.

[matrixschmatrix]

Ministry and Cloak and Dagger are, as far as I recall, the only movies Lang ever made where the accusation that he was drafting off Hitchcock felt particularly apt. Ministry is at least a good Hitch knock-off, though- I'd compare it more to maybe Stage Fright, something minor and which doesn't entirely hold together but is fun for its parts.

[DarkImbecile]

I seem to have liked Ministry of Fear substantially more than most here. While the last half was probably more in line with my lowered expectations based on the mixed reactions I'd read upthread, the first 30-40 minutes were so unnerving and outside my expectations for an espionage thriller that I ended up quite liking the film overall.

Many conspiracy/spy thrillers revel in the paranoia of not knowing who the protagonist can trust, but the opening minutes of this film surprised me by adding the extra layer of complication of not being able to trust the protagonist himself, with Milland's eccentric performance lending the surreal happenings that immediately follow his release from an asylum an even thicker air of unreality. By the time he's sharing his train compartment with a blind man who seems unusually interested in the texture of cake, the compounding unexplained oddities were beginning to feel like a Twilight Zone episode directed by David Lynch.

Once Milland's institutionalization is explained about halfway through, though, Lang drops the seances, palm readings, and other eerie elements in favor of more straightforward spy ring genre machinations. Still, even these elements have a visual distinctiveness (Dan Duryea's enormous scissors, the shot through the door, the roof shootout) that combined with the first act elevate Ministry from the faint criticism of being a good Hitchcock ripoff to the worthwhile praise of being a good Fritz Lang film.

Finally, the film's notably pointed distinction between 'good' and 'bad' immigrants from enemy nations during wartime felt like a point of personal emphasis; I'll be curious to see if Hangmen Also Die! or any of Lang's other work from the 1936-46 window make a "Not all Germans/Austrians..." case as well.

[Rayon Vert]

Nice breakdown of the film. Reading this makes me think I gave off the impression I didn't think much of it, which isn't the case. I agree with matrix's assessment about (most of) the parts being stronger than the whole - a charge that could be leveled at Hitchcock's FC, by the way, even if I think it's a superior film. Lang's film does start off strongly. In my case, there are about 6 or 7 films of his that I rank much more highly than the rest, in terms of being personal favorites, but there will be space at the bottom of my list for something like Ministry to land.

[knives]

The Blue Gardenia
I came into this with probably too high expectations and even still the film shattered my every expectation with every element working so well and being so daring in its sense of true to life that if someone called the movie perfect I'm not sure if I could disagree. The tone of the film is kind of insane and weird. It's something more common to Asian films in my experience than the strictly regulated American emotions. Some of it can be chalked up to a tragicomic structure, but even within that form Lang swing's wildly from noir, horror, and romcom at sometimes an exhausting pace.

The all mixed up performances only add to this wonderful kaleidoscope. Even at her lowest Anne Baxter has this weird sense of being in a screwball until the performance seems like a performance in the film so as to build a defense of life's harsh realities. It's kind of a deconstruction through meta performance on all these quick talking wonder women particularly as she had played in All About Eve. In contrast for the first fifteen minutes the only sign this film isn't a genuine screwball is Burr who hulks as a sexual predator in such an earnestly creepy way that he becomes this scary noir villain from his first frame. This really builds into Baxter's seeming need to defend herself through performance as she changes up her character in reaction to him at different stages of the film and even the little pause in the apartment seems to offer a different mask (I wonder what Chabrol thought of this film now that I'm using that turn of phrase given how thematically tied this film seems to his). As to Conte, well not to give too much away, he seems to be playing to the same strengths as in Whirlpool (also apparently this is based on a book by the same author as Laura if you want another Preminger connection) so this wasn't as revelatory an element though still pretty great.

As sort of alluded to above the movie is great for the frank way it occupies the mind of women. It's this shockingly empathetic film and it's hard to come up with another example, let alone be a male director, that so accurately reflects the fears and concerns of modern women on the dating scene at least through what I've heard from friends and family in this situation. The excuses scene about halfway through is utterly shocking in the frank way it spells out how uncomfortable it is to potentially be raped (what a way for me to underplay the experience) and how dumbly people are willing to forgive that animal brain part of people especially post mortem.

Western Union
I was just thinking to myself it would be interesting if Lang had more time to experiment with colour. Just my luck, huh? I actually liked this for the most part, certainly more than a lot of others seem to, but it barely counts as more than a journeyman effort with its lone point of interest being how it undermines a lot of later narratives of the west which romanticize it as this nostalgic horror. In that sense it probably has more common with Dead Wood in the way it seems to like the civilization of the west. That makes this sound like something other than a goofy, pseudo-Smithian, romcom western.

Also wow, the score here is as bad as they come and I think mostly stock. It's especially bad during the Indian scene which honestly is enough to kill the whole film for a multitude of reasons.

[domino harvey]

knives, congratulations on being right on the internet. That's one down, the rest of you to go

[Rayon Vert]

I'm getting anxious about watching Gardenia again and anticipating I won't meet expectations!

[knives]

I'm still trying to balance it out (especially that ending which is all sorts of complicated), but it will probably wind up as two or three for me as it stands. It's amazing what a good script and terrific performances can do when the editing punches only once or twice. The documentary way the flashback reveal starts up does so much to make any ending of the film just miserable is about as ballsy a move as I can conceive.

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It's like the film trades one broken soul for another that we just so happen to recognize the face of less. Any audience obviously wants Baxter to get away with it and honestly there's nothing present here to suggest the same shouldn't apply to the actual killer.

Also who would have thought Lang would have a film that is basically My Sister Eileen in him?

[zedz]

knives, congratulations on being right on the internet. That's one down, the rest of you to go

I rewatched The Blue Gardenia too, and liked it a lot. It's admirable that the film never wavers in its support of Baxter's character despite the Hollywood 'crimes' she commits, and I feel the film masters a range of tones better than most of Lang's films, where his single-mindedness is often a virtue. Also, any Hollywood film that depicts staunch female friendships well is one to cherish.

I don't know yet whether I'll even be participating in the vote, but this would almost certainly figure in my top ten.

[Drucker]

While The City Sleeps didn't click for me in the way it does others here. It is certainly unlike any Lang film I've seen and in many important ways improves upon the others. For one thing, it handles multiple plots really well, in a way that few of the American films I've seen do. The love affairs, office politics, and serial killer plot are intertwined very well, and the film does a good job of switching between them. As noted, the cast is also top notch. Lastly, unlike Western Union and Man Hunt, there is a strong and healthy dose of cynicism in the business that is central to the film.

And yet, I just didn't find myself caring that much. Perhaps I expected it to be more like a traditional Lang film, with suspense around murders and affairs, but instead we have a sly, dark, cynical Hollywood drama. The things I enjoy in Lang films are melodramatic, both the suspense and love scenes (I again think of the final scene in Frau Im Mond). As clunky as the film could be, I prefer the chase scenes in Man Hunt to this entire film.

Sound and editing in this film also stuck out to me as very unlike Lang. There was nothing particularly interesting in the film's sound design. As far as the editing, that first scene and ensuing credits almost felt like a horror film. The attempted assault on Price's wife felt the same way. The dread and suspense not treated as it is in other Lang films, with shots that are away from the primary action. Perhaps this shouldn't be a point against the film, but I didn't care for it.

Maybe a re-watch would help, especially knowing what I was getting into. But for now I didn't think it was one of his stronger films.

[domino harvey]

Found this while doing research for something else (from Fox's newsletter for theatres)

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

The recent comments in the thread gave me the impetus to exhume Blue Gardenia from the catacombs of my Kevyip and give it a whirl. This one certainly whirrs and purrs through its 90 minutes and I completely agree with Knives' observations on empathy and Baxter's performance. Good to see Conte too less tragic or venal. Despite the rather bizarre dormitory set up of the three women and their assigned roles of betrayed virgin, best friend the unswerving ally and the geeky bookworm, Lang's ability and ease with pacing and performance combine to make it feasible and highly engaging.
However it wouldn't make the upper echelons of any list of mine due to one of Lang's weaker points,namely plot twist hokum.

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Although the house cleaner is a wonderful mix of insubordination and diligence would she really dust round and clear up around the body of her employer? But more teeth grinding is the musical lead to the killer. Would the Murder Squad speed mob-handed to the shop where the record was bought purely because of the retail sticker on the cover????

BTW , Knives what documentary elements struck you about the flashback?... that passed me by.
However the documentary elements of the Cannery Row footage in Clash by NIght is another kettle of fish ... pun intended.
Stanwyck and Ryan as the lovers with acid in their veins and Odett's acerbic dialogue on their lips rockets this one into the upper league with Big Heat and ManHunt as far as the American stuff is concerned. You also get a pretty impressive Monroe for your money too.

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

Finally, the film's notably pointed distinction between 'good' and 'bad' immigrants from enemy nations during wartime felt like a point of personal emphasis; I'll be curious to see if Hangmen Also Die! or any of Lang's other work from the 1936-46 window make a "Not all Germans/Austrians..." case as well.

The Jeweller in Man Hunt is German or Austrian and apart from causing a slight double-take from Pidgeon, seems on the face of it to cut a rather benign figure.

[knives]

Interesting article Dom. Does that mean it was a handout promoting the film like you sometimes still get today or was it trying to sell the film to the theater owners?

BTW , Knives what documentary elements struck you about the flashback?... that passed me by.

I thought the way it started, so as to hide her identity seems the practical reason, acting as if there was only one camera to shoot from and it had to be done without cuts gave a sense of documentary or at least an altered more true reality.

[Drucker]

Finally, the film's notably pointed distinction between 'good' and 'bad' immigrants from enemy nations during wartime felt like a point of personal emphasis; I'll be curious to see if Hangmen Also Die! or any of Lang's other work from the 1936-46 window make a "Not all Germans/Austrians..." case as well.

The Jeweller in Man Hunt is German or Austrian and apart from causing a slight double-take from Pidgeon, seems on the face of it to cut a rather benign figure.

Certainly plays into Hangmen, which is my favorite of those WW2 films and will probably be on my list.