2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol. 3)

An ongoing survey of the Criterion Forum membership to create lists of the best films of each decade and genre.
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thirtyframesasecond
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions

#226 Post by thirtyframesasecond » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:29 pm

swo17 wrote:Clue Answer Key
SpoilerShow
von Trier
Police, adj.
The Son/The Sun
Melody for a Street Organ/The White Meadows
Tsai
2000
A couple more potentially interesting statistics: Eternal Sunshine appeared on only 2 of the first 15 lists submitted but on all but one of the last 10. Also, About Elly appeared on none of the first 26 lists submitted, but then was in the top 10 of the final two lists, nearly placing it in the top 100.
That list that DIDN'T have Eternal Sunshine... must've been mine :D

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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#227 Post by swo17 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:30 pm

No, you were one of the first 15.

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thirtyframesasecond
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#228 Post by thirtyframesasecond » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:32 pm

swo17 wrote:No, you were one of the first 15.
Woah, didn't think I was that punctual!

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domino harvey
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#229 Post by domino harvey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:10 pm

I will figure out all the specifics later but I am flabbergasted that my number one, the Baxter, not only wasn't Orphaned, but made the actual list! And my Spotlight wasn't orphaned either! Good work swo! :relevantCWdramagif:

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movielocke
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#230 Post by movielocke » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:32 pm

I'm surprised I'm the only one who voted for Up.

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domino harvey
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#231 Post by domino harvey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:39 pm

And that I was the only one to vote for Up in the Air!

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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#232 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:40 pm

movielocke wrote:I'm surprised I'm the only one who voted for Up.
I think a lot of what made Up so surprising and moving the first time has been diluted by revisits - I know for me, I was totally distracted from how weak the whole talking dog, caper stuff (basically half the film) was because the first 20 minutes and the last 5 minutes were so strong, and it has not held up well to say the least.

I'm the most surprised that Synecdoche, New York had downward momentum on this list, considering [what I perceive to be] upward momentum in its reputation since its mixed-to-poor reception upon release. Though I'm relieved to see The Darjeeling Limited going so quickly in the correct direction, it's one of Anderson's strongest films, if not his very best.

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Lemmy Caution
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#233 Post by Lemmy Caution » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:45 pm

Dogville was towards the bottom of my list.
I wasn't aware it was so popular here.
A nice surprise to see it finish so high.

Lots of placements surprised me, such as Police, adj. way high at #29; while The Paper Will Be Blue didn't get another vote besides mine.

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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#234 Post by dustybooks » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:47 pm

movielocke wrote:I'm surprised I'm the only one who voted for Up.
It was very close to being included on my list along with Monsters Inc.; I actually thought both were safe which is part of why I finally left them off!

I'm quite excited that The Village made the list, and that Dancer in the Dark -- which for some reason I thought was mostly disliked on this board -- placed so highly.

Edit: I forgot to say, thanks so much to swo for all your work. Get a big kick out of reading through these results and you put them together so well!

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domino harvey
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#235 Post by domino harvey » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:52 pm

Yes, the Village deservedly making the final list was a great but pleasant surprise

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Lemmy Caution
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Up The Yangtze

#236 Post by Lemmy Caution » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:54 pm

As expected, I was the only one to vote for Up The Yangtze.
A terrific documentary about young folks trying to earn their way in China's new market economy, with emphasis on how the country is changing, plus the bonus of some nice nature shots.
[Full disclosure: I live near the mouth of the Yangtze]

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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#237 Post by swo17 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:54 pm

Lemmy Caution wrote:Lots of placements surprised me, such as Police, adj. way high at #29
As I hinted at one point, it was comfortably in the top 5 with the first ten lists submitted, but then it never received another vote.

Perhaps the most surprising result to me was that one of my orphans was Colossal Youth!

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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#238 Post by mfunk9786 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:55 pm

domino harvey wrote:Yes, the Village deservedly making the final list was a great but pleasant surprise
If I felt like a movie with such a substantial twist was going to be re-watchable, I would take the placement as a recommendation, but I recall hating it so much upon release so much that I'll use already knowing where it ends up to talk myself out of it

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knives
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#239 Post by knives » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:01 pm

Thanks Swo for putting forth the extra work you do on this thankless job.

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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#240 Post by colinr0380 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:05 pm

Yes thanks swo, and thanks for adding a note about the placement on the orphan films in their lists too! I stupidly forgot to put The Headless Woman on my list (though I've made a note to be certain to include it next time), so breathed a sigh of relief that it came in joint 100th position!

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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#241 Post by TMDaines » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:17 pm

swo17 wrote:A couple more potentially interesting statistics: Eternal Sunshine appeared on only 2 of the first 15 lists submitted but on all but one of the last 10. Also, About Elly appeared on none of the first 26 lists submitted, but then was in the top 10 of the final two lists, nearly placing it in the top 100.
So many of my top films I am stunned received so little attention, like About Elly. I guess that serves me right for never contributing to the discussion. In fairness, however, for the 60s to the 2000s I have just been watching as much as I can and only pulling together a ballot in the last few days, so it has been difficult to champion lesser known works. I only really started watching film properly in the latter stages of 2009, so this is all historic stuff for me!

At least with the next list, I've already got a very solid idea of what shall be making my ballot, because of the dynamic top tens elsewhere, so should be inclined to recommend much more.

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Tommaso
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#242 Post by Tommaso » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:18 pm

Thanks as always to swo for the hard work with the lists!

I'm not surprised about how many of my lesser known favourites fared (badly, that is), but I still wonder about the status of Rivette. I'm glad that he at least made the Top 100 with "Marie et Julien" now, but after all the excitement that was expressed in the Arrow thread and naturally also in the dedicated thread now after his death, one could get the impression that he's a clear favourite here at the forum. But apparently he isn't. You could argue that the 2000s were not his most important decade, but he didn't fare particularly well in the 1980s and 1990s lists either. Perhaps Rivette is a director who elicits the highest praise from a rather vocal minority but whose works do little for many other members? This is not meant as a criticism, but I'm genuinely curious and a bit baffled.

Manoel de Oliveira is a similar case, though admittedly his works are far less known.

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swo17
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#243 Post by swo17 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:25 pm

Rivette's key decade was arguably the 1970s, when he was the 8th highest ranking director in our poll. He also ranked 9th in the 1990s (when de Oliveira ranked 11th). That's not too bad if you ask me.

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thirtyframesasecond
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#244 Post by thirtyframesasecond » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:28 pm

My list with swo's additions of their placings. Some of my orphans don't surprise me, but I hoped IvansXTC might do moderately OK. It had a few fans early in the thread. And the Class? A Palme D'Or winner!

Amelie probably has fallen out of favour as the decade went on. I didn't even re-watch it for the project, so I still see it with the eyes of 2002.

8 Caché
2 In the Mood for Love
3 There Will Be Blood
106 Amélie
## Ivansxtc
64 The Return
48 Ten
39 Moolaadé
## The Class
15 Elephant
27 Inglourious Basterds
100 The Headless Woman
126 In Bruges
165 Bamboozled
## The Tracker
5 Dogville
16 A.I.: Artificial Intelligence
30 The New World
204 Bright Star
## XXY
## The Shape of Things
## The Beat That My Heart Skipped
24 Head-On
85 Three Times
62 Two Lovers
## May
75 The Triplets of Belleville
98 Brick
82 Mysterious Skin
126 In the City of Sylvia
170 The Fountain
## Time Out
239 All the Real Girls
37 35 Shots of Rum
27 Goodbye, Dragon Inn
## Mother
86 You Can Count on Me
## Lion's Den
175 Crimson Gold
## La zona
255 House of Flying Daggers
189 Shirin
193 Il Divo
## Helen
## The Girlfriend Experience
31 Memories of Murder
## Springtime in a Small Town
## Henri-Georges Clouzot's Inferno
74 Let the Right One In
260 Dark Days

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zedz
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#245 Post by zedz » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:01 pm

Tommaso wrote:Thanks as always to swo for the hard work with the lists!

I'm not surprised about how many of my lesser known favourites fared (badly, that is), but I still wonder about the status of Rivette. I'm glad that he at least made the Top 100 with "Marie et Julien" now, but after all the excitement that was expressed in the Arrow thread and naturally also in the dedicated thread now after his death, one could get the impression that he's a clear favourite here at the forum. But apparently he isn't. You could argue that the 2000s were not his most important decade, but he didn't fare particularly well in the 1980s and 1990s lists either. Perhaps Rivette is a director who elicits the highest praise from a rather vocal minority but whose works do little for many other members? This is not meant as a criticism, but I'm genuinely curious and a bit baffled.

Manoel de Oliveira is a similar case, though admittedly his works are far less known.
My top Rivette was Va Savoir, but it got gradually bumped out of my top 50. However, I get the impression that it's not generally in favour, so it might have done no good to include it. I had a handful of competing De Oliveiras (with I'm Going Home riding highest), but none of them I felt strongly enough to make it into my top fifty (out of a shortlist of 180-something). Next decade there will be less self-competition for The Strange Case of Angelica (which I like better than any of his 00s films), so I'm sure it will make my cut at least.

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zedz
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#246 Post by zedz » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:11 pm

Thanks to swo for all his hard work, and thanks to his handy analysis, orphan disciplining and panda baiting has been easier than ever, so here’s my entire list with the failures dragged up in front of the class and berated:

Yi Yi

Virgin Stripped Bare by Her Bachelors

What Time Is It There?

Le Pont des Arts (Eugene Green) - ALSO RAN
When I looked back at my initial impressions I was surprised that I was a little cold on this first time through. Since then, it’s become something of an old standby. Despite Green’s extreme stylization and formal rigour, this gets more emotional every time I see it, and Denis Podalydes’ turn as The Unnamable (presumably because the real person would sue) is always horrifically hilarious.

Goodbye, Dragon Inn

Come into My World (Michel Gondry) - ALSO RAN
I rave about this every vote. You just need to see it and then marvel at its conception and execution.

Werckmeister Harmonies

Melody for a Street Organ (Kira Muratova) - ALSO RAN
Perhaps the most poisonous and cruel Christmas film ever made. It might look like mere Fellinian grotesquerie, but it ends with
SpoilerShow
a Nativity scene in which the child is dead from neglect.
A fable that shakes you by the shoulders and screams “what is wrong with you?!” into your face.

Tropical Malady

L'Intrus (Claire Denis) - ALSO RAN
Neither of my Denis picks made the list. This is probably her most difficult film, its seductive form deliberately shifted a knight’s move away from its meaning, but its dreamlike intensity is intoxicating.

Who's Camus Anyway? (Mitsuo Yanagimachi) - ALSO RAN
Very accomplished, referential ensemble film that would be standard were it not for a handful of unexpected, bravura sequences that lift it into a rarefied realm.

Extraordinary Stories (Mariano Llinas) – ORPHAN
When this finally comes out on DVD it might pick up some more fans. This was one of the most exciting and bold films I saw since the last vote, a long, complex, deeply mysterious exercise in narrative invention that drags early Greenaway into the 21st century while remaining grounded in basic storytelling virtues. A first film by somebody who looks like they assumed they’d never get to make another one, so they had to do everything all at once, and do it right.

The World

In the City of Sylvia (Jose Luis Guerin) - ALSO RAN
I’m kind of surprised this didn’t make the cut, but it’s a film whose virtues are so delicate and purely cinematic that it might be hard to re-evoke them when making a boring old list. Another film that I can put on any time and be transported.

Between Two Worlds (Vimukthi Jayasundara) – ORPHAN
Slightly ahead of the apocalypse craze, and more affecting than most of those films. When you can see the end of the world coming, in human form, advancing relentlessly across the mountains, raping and killing, it’s somehow worse than being hit by a comet. This film has a Griffithian sense of scale.

The White Meadows (Mohammad Rasoulof) - ALSO RAN
And sometimes you realize that the end of the world has already happened.

The Son

Zodiac

Paper Soldier (Aleksey German Jr) – ORPHAN
The west is just now discovering the works of Aleksey German. In another forty years’ time, if we’re lucky, they’ll be discovering the works of his son. For all the people who complain about the lack of a modern-day Tarkovsky: OVER HERE!

Black and White Trypps Number Four (Ben Russell) – ORPHAN
Tonight, your host for the worst acid trip of your life will be. . . Richard Pryor!

The Decay of Fiction (Pat O’Neill) – ORPHAN
Old films noirs don’t die, they pile up in O’Neill’s tailor-made purgatory.

Demonlover

South of the Clouds (Zhu Wen) – ORPHAN
Is this wonderful film already lost beyond retrieval? If Hong Sang-Soo and Franz Kafka had a baby, it’d probably be a bit like this.

Imprints (Jacques Drouin) – ALSO RAN
A grand master of pinscreen animation decides, in his twilight years, that there must be dozens of possibilities with the technique that have never been attempted, so he packs them all into this dazzling film.

Summer Hours

Morphia (Aleksey Balabanov) – ALSO RAN
Another great contemporary Russian / ex-Soviet filmmaker that people don’t know about simply because of the vagaries of international distribution. Although Balabanov has been much better served in that respect than German or Muratova, this brutal, beautiful period film never made the leap.

Police, adj.

The Last Train (Aleksey German Jr.) – ALSO RAN
Wow! Somebody else voted for this. Bleak, slushy epic in which an immense, useless doctor flounders around amidst the chaos of WWII. Again, if you want to know whatever happened to the sweeping, large-scale art films of the 60s: they’re probably just sitting on a shelf somewhere nowhere near you. This film is notable for possibly having the least heroic protagonist of all time.

You, the Living (Roy Andersson) – ALSO RAN
Huh, how did this miss the last transport? Don’t you guys like comedies that are actually funny?

Platform (Jia Zhang-ke) – ALSO RAN
I’ll be charitable and put it down to the dreadful state of the current DVDs, but one of the defining films of the 21st century missing the boat is frankly a bit of a forum embarrassment.

Friday Night (Claire Denis) – ORPHAN
My other Denis tends to get dismissed as slight, but to me it’s like a perfect pop song, albeit a soulful and moody one. Another gorgeous dream film that is endlessly replayable.

Old Joy (Kelly Reichardt) – ALSO RAN
Still Reichardt’s best film, and her subsequent ones have been pretty great!

Le Souffle (Damien Odoul) – ORPHAN
I rewatched this just before the deadline and was re-impressed enough to include it. Photogenic rural teenage malaise (in superb high-contrast black and white) in which kids’ lives are destroyed by the unthinking rituals of adult masculinity. Thematically schematic perhaps, but formally commanding, and so much better than Bruno Dumont’s hamfisted attempts at the same kind of material.

To Die Like a Man (Joao Pedro Rodrigues) – ORPHAN
Rodrigues is a consistently interesting filmmaker who’s never quite made it above the parapet of international recognition. This seems at first like a standard gay drama, but over time it accumulates weird, visionary details, and then about halfway through it decisively breaks its mould and takes flight as a weird, wonderful original creation.

Outerborough (Bill Morrison) – ALSO RAN
Nice to see that this simple, mesmerising structural film has gathered some more fans since the last list.

Memories of Murder

Private Property (Joachim Lafosse) – ORPHAN
Still a filmmaker to watch. The bleak Our Children is his best-known work, but this claustrophobic family drama is his best to date. It’s very much inspired by Pialat and has brilliant work from Jeremie Renier and Isabelle Huppert. I’d argue that this is Huppert’s best performance of the decade. Everything Lafosse has made so far is worth checking out, however, even the creepy as fuck misfire Eleve Libre.

Four Nights with Anna (Jerzy Skolimowski) – ORPHAN
A major return to form by a major filmmaker.

Ydessa, the Bears and etc. (Agnes Varda) – ORPHAN
Any time you vote for a short film, you might as well be throwing your vote into a pit, but that’s no reason not to do it. This is about as straightforward a film as Varda has ever made, but the care with which she explores the implications of the fascinating subject is exquisite, and it delivers the kind of sombre whimsy that Varda excels at in her best work.

The Time That Remains (Elia Suleiman) – ALSO RAN
Speaking of sombre whimsy. . . Last time around I voted for Divine Intervention, but this is better. This film is a little more restrained and moving, but there’s still plenty of exquisite Tatiesque mise en scene and a wallop of bemused politics.

Three Times

Cargo 200 (Aleksey Balabanov) – ALSO RAN
Not a film that I can claim to enjoy, but its dirty fingernails have been scraping my subconscious ever since I saw it, which must count for something.

Crazy (Heddy Honigmann) – ORPHAN
This documentary had a huge emotional impact on me, and it seemed to me to be a perfect summary of Honigmann’s two major themes: the impact of war on individuals, and the ways in which people use music in their everyday lives. I was surprised, however, to see in my notes at the time that I felt it wasn’t as good as her previous film (Two Minutes Silence, Please) or her next one (Good Husband, Dear Son). Both of those are fantastic films, but this is the one that has stayed with me the longest. As far as I know, Forever is the only Honigmann film that’s readily available on DVD, and it’s also fantastic. Hey, Second Run! How about a box set?

A Gentle Breeze in the Village (Nobuhiro Yamashita) – ORPHAN
I believe I wrote about this gentle charmer already. There’s still time to makes its acquaintance for the Youth list!

Russian Ark

Electric Dragon 80.000 V (Sogo Ishii) – ALSO RAN
Still the best superhero movie ever made, but it’s not as if there’s any strong competition.

Love Torn in a Dream – Astounded that this made the final list!

Lake Tahoe (Fernando Eimbcke) – ORPHAN
Also discussed already. Check it out!

The Studio Lights Dream of Their Real Life at Night (Alexander Kluge) – ORPHAN
Also discussed (briefly). A gorgeous fragment, basically. I had a bunch of “perfect number 50s” vying for inclusion and ended up limiting myself to two.

Sound Barrier (Amir Naderi) – ALSO RAN
When I saw this, I thought it was a really flawed film, though I couldn’t think what should have been done differently. Since then, I’ve never been able to forget it.

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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#247 Post by the preacher » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:18 pm

With a ballot completely against the tide I've got... 7 entries! \:D/

Too bad that masterpieces as Mr. and Mrs. Iyer or Mid-August Lunch don't have a place in this world anymore just because the lack of visual fireworks. Oops, I should have helped The Secret of the Grain. ](*,)

Thanks for your work, swo.

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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#248 Post by Michael Kerpan » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:25 pm

Tons of orphans and also-rans. Just goes to show what a truly great decade that was. Thans swo.

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Tommaso
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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#249 Post by Tommaso » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:00 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:Just goes to show what a truly great decade that was.
I have to admit that the 2000s were probably the decade that I knew least of before this list-making. So what I did to fill up my gap of knowledge was to watch many of the films that made the Top 100 in the former iterations of the list-making. Somewhat selectively, I have to say, that is, I concentrated basically on the European and Asian arthouse films, so I probably have missed a lot of fine films. Still, even among those I watched , there were many films that made the former Top 100 that simply left me entirely cold. There were clever, nice ones among them, well made ("In the City of Sylvia" comes to mind as well as "Syndromes and a Century" or "Innocence"), but what I missed among many of the films that formerly made the Top 100 - and some of the films I have in mind have now dropped from the current list - was a certain sense of urgency, as if many of the filmmakers were living in a sort of well-contained, saturated bubble (even if they expose the bubble, like in "La Cienaga"). That is why I put something like Gitai's "Promised Land" relatively high on my list. It has it flaws, but at least here's a director who has an important point to make and put his heart into it.

This sense of urgency (for lack of a better word) curiously seems to come back with the 2010s as far as I've already seen the films from the current decade. I was terribly disappointed by Jarmusch's "Broken Flowers" and "The Limits of Control", for instance, but tend to regard "Only Lovers left alive" as one of the greatest things he ever directed. No idea whether this has something to do with the world falling apart at the moment, but so far I have the feeling that the filmic output of the 2010s might be far more significant than that of the 2000s. In other words, I'm looking very much forward to the 2010s list :-)

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Re: 2000s List Discussion and Suggestions (Lists Project Vol

#250 Post by swo17 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:18 pm

Why not discuss that in the 2010s thread? ;)

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