The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

An ongoing project to survey the best films of individual decades, genres, and filmmakers.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1976 Post by therewillbeblus » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:13 am

The Sect: Much better than I expected as a fresh take on the satanic cult horror involving novel rules on re-emergence and plenty of creative uses of non-human creatures for various wickedly torturous purposes. The bird/neck incident is nasty in the best kind of way, as are plenty of other details that have room to breathe within an expected framework. Even when things become predictably re-hashed, the ride is still paved with originality.

Stagefright: I wasn’t feeling this for the first act but once the slasher narrative took hold in a more controlled manner, this was exceptional for the subgenre. I cared for the heroine almost strictly due to her authentic aura paving the way to a humanist connection, and beyond surrogate alliance I was completely enveloped in the milieu. I laughed at the owl head but the menacing threats were well orchestrated from tension to actual deaths, and even the ritualized placement of bodies captured eloquently (a weird adverb for this) by the camera. Recommended for those who want to see a stellar version of something familiar.

Viy: This was an excellent horror fable, with inspired cinematography (the spinning camera during the vigils, especially the first one, is just spectacular), inventive art direction, and a diverse score that amplifies the eerie scenes nicely and lends itself to the folklore content between bouts of supernatural happenings. A late list contender. The Severin blu looks great too.


Revisits:

Dawn of the Dead (‘78, ‘04): Romero’s first installment in the trilogy will undoubtedly place high but this one doesn’t do much for me. The mall zombie setpieces can be amusing but a revisit lessened any flavor I got out of this the first time. I actually really like the Snyder remake, much more (and I’m not a fan of his other work, except I have a strange fondness for Sucker Punch, though not as much as many here). The casting in the make elevates it miles ahead of the director’s own influence (I love Sarah Polley, and yeah Ving Rhames, but Jake Weber’s honesty and all the eclectic fight/flight character actors make this a delight) but Snyder’s stylish choices are restrained enough to allow this to be an accessible narrative and yet he incorporates some very creative choices to make it different and stand out amongst other half-measured remakes.

Lost Highway: This is the Lynch that has fluctuated the most in my esteem over the years, finding a place of increasing admiration even if never settling comfortably. Part of the struggle is that this is a deeply uncomfortable film, and I’d argue it might be his most esoteric work. I think Mulholland Dr. is a lot more accessible than I used to, and Twin Peaks: The Return lends itself to theories because it offers many grounding specifiers. Inland Empire rivals this as a messy nightmare, but this film maintains some semblance of narrative so that I keep going back for a tenth, eleventh time thinking “this time it’ll all click” only to reveal the same experience of a hazy connective tissue between realities. This is a nightmare, a horror film that signifies how easy it is to be displaced from our fragile identities, and dares to question if these ‘lives’ we live are not only authentic but perhaps aren’t ‘real’ at all, and rather a product of 90s sociological disguise due to instability of ego and complacency in routine around anti-culture. This isn’t a film that hints at something dark and mysterious occurring beneath the surface of our reality, it suggests that maybe our reality isn’t real, and thus this darkness floods the milieu we pretend to exist in with agency. The video tapes are the catalyst of the Real penetrating this facade, but of course this is only the beginning of the ride. Maybe it is about a psychotic man who loses his mind and escapes into another narrative as a psychological defense mechanism, but it hardly matters. This is the stuff that (bad) dreams are made of.

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1977 Post by swo17 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:56 am

I think I was the only one to vote for Lost Highway last time

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1978 Post by therewillbeblus » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:21 pm

I won’t leave you stranded

User avatar
bottled spider
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1979 Post by bottled spider » Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:34 pm

One thing that interested me about Viy is that it can be congruent with either piety or unbelief. The existence of demons and witches implies the existence of God, and the defeat of the seminarian needn't be at all religiously problematic, in that he never puts his faith in God -- his use of religious ritual is clearly more superstitious than reverent, despite his vocation. But for the viewer who is hostile to religion, the Church certainly comes out looking feckless and corrupt. Is this ambiguity the result of a story written by a devout man being adapted under the Soviet regime?

Anyway, I think the appeal of the movie is that while you can't help feeling sorry for the seminarian, in your secret heart you are rooting for the witch.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1980 Post by colinr0380 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:20 pm

The opening of the Dawn of the Dead remake (everything involving Sarah Polley getting to the mall basically) was fantastic but after that I was a little underwhelmed. I think called anything else but "Dawn of the Dead" and I would have looked on it much more fondly as it is full of great character actors (I was particularly glad to see Matt Frewer, aka Max Headroom, in a small role!), some unabashed gore (the older gentleman versus young woman 'accidental chainsaw' scene, which brings up a whole host of implications!), and I really liked the owner of the gun store across the street. Although I did find the 'going after the dog' plot turn, which itself causes the collapse of the whole tenuous situation, very annoying! The thing that makes it come off poorly in comparison to the Romero original is that there is just no sense of 'enjoying' being in that mall at all, so that the zombie threat falls away for a while. It might be because there are so many people around; or it might be because it feels that everything is taking place over a day or two rather than months; it may be that the collapse is an internal one rather than externally imposed by the biker gang raiding them; it might be because the remake has to have a lot of 'action' surrounding that zombie pregnancy to keep the tension up rather than feeling confident enough to let the beat drop for a moment.

I think I said this in an earlier post but it also may be that the remake feels much more of a remake of Aliens in its structure with a Dawn of the Dead veneer than particularly a tribute to the Romero film, but maybe that is down to the 'one character dragging another backwards through a sewer tunnel while they shoot back at the oncoming horde of enemies' moment (And I kind of have a suspicion that it borrows more than a little from Maximum Overdrive too! Though that might be because of the final invasion of the central location and then our (large) band of survivors making their getaway by boat). Which makes the final scene intercut with the end credits a bit like the depressive opening sequence of Alien 3!

___

Lost Highway feels a lot about possessiveness. Our main character gets so fixated on the possibility of his wife cheating on him due to the ever increasing bizarre messages through intercoms and CCTV (which in the looping ending he delivers himself), he ends up creating an entire universe where he is younger and hunkier and his murdered through insane jealousy wife is recontextualised (reincarnated?) as someone under the thumb of your classic gangster figure (whose insane possessiveness can be easily critiqued) and who has been filmed in sexual acts with a pop star (Marilyn Manson). So instead of being so jealous of the wife's past and murdering her, our main character gets to be the hero 'saving' her from her past and murdering the 'bad guys' instead!

It really bears comparison to Mulholland Drive in that extreme possessiveness and feelings of betrayal along with guilt for murdering their object of affection in a pique of jealousy causes a kind of fracture in the psyche that creates an entirely new (easier? safer? more hopeful?) world to exist in. They're both post-Twin Peaks works in that sense. But the big difference is that whilst neither fantasy world can sustain itself forever the character in Mulholland Drive is driven to suicide by her demons, whilst the main character in Lost Highway seemingly embraces becoming the demon tormenting himself and instead of reaching a tragic point drives off into the night still ranting and screaming in impotent rage. I find Mulholland Drive far more moving with much more sympathy for a person who has performed a monstrous act and is riven by guilt by it, but perhaps Lost Highway is the male-centred companion piece to it?
Last edited by colinr0380 on Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1981 Post by knives » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:30 pm

swo17 wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:56 am
I think I was the only one to vote for Lost Highway last time
If I considered it a horror film I would vote for it. Possibly my favorite American film ever.

User avatar
swo17
Bloodthirsty Butcher
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
Location: SLC, UT

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1982 Post by swo17 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:58 pm

I considered it the most like a "horror" of all his films, but I think everyone else went with...Inland Empire?

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1983 Post by domino harvey » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:12 pm

I think Lynch and “Horror” runs into the same trouble Hitchcock and “Noir” caused for some of us during that list: he’s just more his own thing than anything else

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1984 Post by therewillbeblus » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:01 pm

I get that, but for me it’s different just based on the degree of overwhelming feeling. Hitchcock’s films incorporate some noir elements into a melting pot of adventure, suspense, romance, action, comedy, even horror, while Lynch’s work can do the same but the levels of horror can cast a shadow over the other moods to debilitating places. I won’t consider Blue Velvet a horror movie, though I wouldn’t blame anyone that does, for that mix is too balanced, and even something like Eraserhead which is a kind of surrealist nightmare is more of a deranged art film with a milder, comic, and experimental temperament. Mulholland Dr. will make my list for many of the same reasons as Lost Highway, and Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me should as well for being the most extreme ‘realistic’ externalization of trauma while forcing us to sit with the final days of Laura as she gives up hope (and a case could certainly be made for The Return), but I agree with swo that Lost Highway is Lynch flooding us with horror, spilling black paint over a (muted) colorful portrait. The film maintains that consistent dread within a nightmare, whether we’re in a dream or reality, and refuses clues as to any hope of logic while maintaining the structures of clear narratives until we’re tossed off a cliff several times over. I think it’s the only film of his where he forces the audience to sit with the Real in a way that appears tangible enough to keep moving but is continuously revealed to be a mirage, security remaining hopelessly out of reach.

Inland Empire does something similar but with so little grounding strategies in its progression that I never felt the internal push-pull struggle like I do here, where I’m trapped in a nightmare and begin to lucid dream to get myself out only to be pushed into another nightmare losing any control I believed I had, all while professing the possibility that this nightmare is my life and maybe I already woke up to it.

Great thoughts Colin, I enjoyed reading that!

nitin
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:49 am

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1985 Post by nitin » Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:23 am

I agree with colin’s thoughts re Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway, although to me Lost Highway is more generally nihilistic than necessarily from more of a male viewpoint. Enjoy both but MD is a greater film to me because it embraces a more difficult balance than outright nihilism.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1986 Post by therewillbeblus » Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:58 am

I don’t think Lost Highway is nihilistic though it welcomes that reading. It’s in my favorite kind of weird subgenre of existentialist crises on film- assaultive disturbances that provoke our senses of reality and awareness of possible defense mechanisms under the fallibility inherent in our limited perspective. But life is not meaningless because we can escape into a better dream, because we can make meaning and live even under circumstances that are less than ideal, because in the relinquishment of control and surrender to our defense mechanisms we can live a healthy life in brief spouts (even if this is relative, and even if these spouts aren’t ‘real’, which is besides the point because what is, this kind of film asks?) But life is not meaningless because we have art, and because dreams are art to Lynch. In a weird way this is a film that celebrates life’s range of possibilities within the confines of the realization that our developed conceptions and skills to navigate it are faulty, in this case stripped from us. It’s a nightmare, but if the nightmare is the cumulative effects of being disrupted from a facade, then the rebirth can be meaningful even under distress.

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1987 Post by therewillbeblus » Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:21 am

Just checked the rules and I suppose that even self-contained episodes within those series with continuous storylines don’t count.. well I’ll put in a good word for two that don’t necessitate any knowledge about the show to see:

Home: I don’t watch The X-Files but I’ve seen this one-off episode many times. It’s a nostalgic horror show, famous for the controversy around its airing, and more disturbing than most movies that’ll make my list.

Teddy Perkins from season 2 of Atlanta has nothing to do with the series and one could easily watch it blind. This one’s actual horror elements deserve to be kept a secret but it’s safe to say that if you think Michael Jackson post-surgery was creepy this will make you sick on presentation alone. Couple that with a lack of emotional detection sans facial expression and awkward situations while feeling trapped and you have the recipe for a great horror. But it’s the pacing and deliberate sensitization that torture you with goosebumps, make you laugh nervously and at the ridiculousness of the predicament for short spurts as we realize fear is overpowering our experience. This would be a lock for my list if it counted.

User avatar
bottled spider
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1988 Post by bottled spider » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:30 am

Dolores Claiborne (Taylor Hackford, 1995).
Dolores Claiborne is primarily a drama, and a kind of anti-procedural, but is readily defended as partly horror. It's certainly scored that way, and its few moments of violence are presented horrifically, and with great tension. The movie feels like it could erupt at any time into a more full-blooded horror.

An unspoken question lingers over Dolores Claiborne. Detective Mackay says something to the effect that out of some two dozen homicides he's investigated over the course of his career, all but one were resolved to his satisfaction. Given how mistaken he was about Claiborne, and the dubious methods he resorts to, one is left wondering whether his near perfect record included any wrongful convictions. Mackay is not corrupt or malicious, but his zeal borders on insanity. The sinister presence he casts over the film contributes to the atmosphere of horror.

User avatar
Feego
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
Location: Texas

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1989 Post by Feego » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:49 pm

bottled spider wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:30 am
An unspoken question lingers over Dolores Claiborne. Detective Mackay says something to the effect that out of some two dozen homicides he's investigated over the course of his career, all but one were resolved to his satisfaction. Given how mistaken he was about Claiborne, and the dubious methods he resorts to, one is left wondering whether his near perfect record included any wrongful convictions. Mackay is not corrupt or malicious, but his zeal borders on insanity. The sinister presence he casts over the film contributes to the atmosphere of horror.
Well, he actually wasn't mistaken about her the first time, which of course is the case that wasn't resolved to his satisfaction. I think Mackay's sinister presence can be traced more to his underlying misogyny, like most of the other men in the film. Note the way he seems to relish in making young Selena squirm when he interrogates her after her father's death. What really irks him more than a criminal getting away with murder is that a WOMAN gets away with killing her husband. He doesn't really care at all about bringing justice for Vera Donovan and probably knows good and well there isn't a case there; he's just determined to make Dolores finally pay for her prior (man-killing) crime at all costs, even if he has to fudge the facts to do so.

User avatar
bottled spider
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:59 am

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1990 Post by bottled spider » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:40 pm

Let's say he was right for the wrong reasons: his suspicion wasn't unreasonable, but his certitude was irrational, and the thing that made him most suspicious -- Selena staying at the hotel overnight -- wasn't, as he thought, orchestrated by Delores at all. Delores in fact strenuously objected.

User avatar
Feego
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:30 pm
Location: Texas

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1991 Post by Feego » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:22 pm

I'll spoilerbox this, since this might be more than some want to know before seeing the movie.
SpoilerShow
Although at the point when Selena decided to stay at the hotel, Dolores had not yet come up with her plan nor was she even necessarily set on killing Joe. While she was chasing after Selena, she tripped on the board and nearly fell into the well herself. It was a series of events lining up (Selena not being home, Dolores chancing by the well, the eclipse providing a perfect moment) that led to her (and Vera) clearly orchestrating the events of that day. So yes, you are correct that Dolores didn't send Selena away in order to carry out her plot, but had she thought of it before, she probably would have. At the very least, she used Selena's absence to her advantage.
I still think, however, that the film is less concerned with the ethics of Mackay's career as a whole than with his personal vendetta against Dolores, fueled significantly by her sex. His function in the movie is more as a hovering ghost of the past still haunting Dolores after all these years and threatening to keep her permanently separated from her daughter. What makes him so frightening is that he almost doesn't seem to have a life or career outside of this particular case (his mentioned record notwithstanding). He's the abusive husband, patriarchal authority, and judgmental society rolled into one human form. It's interesting that his character is not in King's novel at all, or rather that he's an extension of a very minor character in the novel. The book features a doctor who comes to a pretty accurate conclusion about what happened to Joe, but he is not able to bring enough evidence for conviction. He dies a few years later and is thus not present for the Vera Donovan case. The film takes this very brief passage and turns it into an avenging angel subplot.

User avatar
Finch
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1992 Post by Finch » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:00 am

therewillbeblus wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:21 am
Home: I don’t watch The X-Files but I’ve seen this one-off episode many times. It’s a nostalgic horror show, famous for the controversy around its airing, and more disturbing than most movies that’ll make my list.
I lived in Germany at the time of Home airing and they moved it to a 10pm slot instead of the usual 8pm one, and even then they cut most of the pre-credits sequence. I re-watched Home sometime last year and it definitely qualifies as the most horrific episode of the entire run. If it wasn't for the occasional joke (quite enjoyed the Elvis reference and Mulder's reaction), this thing would be unbearable to watch. Bit of trivia: had Wong and Morgan stayed on for season three of Millennium, there likely would have been an appearance of the Peacocks on that show (they wouldn't have been out of place on Millennium's first season!).

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1993 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:01 am

Revisiting The House of the Devil again to organize the top tier of my list and I’m ashamed to say I didn’t even realize Mary Woronov was in this the first three or four times I watched it! After going through a couple Bartels with her over the last few days it’s a spooky coincidence and feels like a possible fate of the weird shit for her deceptive character in Eating Raoul to get into if she went on to try more drugs than pot!

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1994 Post by domino harvey » Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:07 am

Back to the topic of anthology backdoor, I’d like to remind everyone that the Flypaper is available on YouTube. It will 100% make my list and will also 100% make you feel terrible after watching it

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1995 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:05 am

Yep, it sure did! Rancid stuff there for what appears to be a “kid’s” horror program, Roald Dahl and everything. Great execution in bowling a strike after lining up the ducks so well over twenty minutes beforehand.

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1996 Post by domino harvey » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:11 am

Dahl was actually a rather prolific adult fiction author, and this series wasn't for kids, though I’m sure like me there were lots of kids watching 80s anthology horror programs not intended for them (though I only got tuned onto this particular episode long after the fact— by zedz, as I recall). And of course perhaps children should see this episode for the obvious reason...

EDIT Worth noting that Dahl didn’t write the story this is based on, though many other episodes are based on his stories

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1997 Post by therewillbeblus » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:20 am

Yeah I’m aware of Dahl’s adult fiction I guess I just read that too as a kid and also watched those anthology shows at a young age. This reminds me of those programs in its vibe, so I guess when I said “appears” I meant the look and feel was related to those I watched then- but anyone that sees this and actually thinks it was intended for a kids’ program is mad! The content is far more horrific than any of what it is reminiscent of. I’ll definitely be showing this to my kids some day as a warning. Also,
SpoilerShow
I guess we’ve finally solved the mystery of who that old couple in Mulholland Dr. is (double shudder)

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1998 Post by domino harvey » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:28 am

It’s probably too much for most adults, I’d wager!
SpoilerShow
The ending reminds me of the same sinking inevitability of doom I feel at Don’t Look Now’s finale as Sutherland makes his discovery— the only two horror films I can think of that give me that anticipatory anxious sensation on repeat viewings

User avatar
zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#1999 Post by zedz » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:12 am

Great to see this little poisoned bonbon has some fans. When I saw it on TV as a kid, it was probably the scariest thing I’d ever seen. The author of the original story was (not THE) Elizabeth Taylor, but I never tracked it down. Anybody know her work? I can’t remember any other episodes of the series being non-Dahl sources.

User avatar
colinr0380
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:30 pm
Location: Chapel-en-le-Frith, Derbyshire, UK

Re: The Horror List Discussion and Suggestions (Genre Project)

#2000 Post by colinr0380 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:01 am

Speaking of poisoned bonbons, my favourite Roald Dahl story as a kid (along with The Twits and Matilda) was the likely unadaptable due to Health & Safety issues George's Marvellous Medicine, just because it made mixing lots of common household ingredients together into a 'magical potion' and feeding it to an obnoxious relative seem like the most wonderful fun! Its quite close to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory in structure and the way that the 'bad guy' kind of deserves their punishment for quaffing various foodstuffs unthinkingly!

But I did like the 'Blue Peter' way that it suggested that all the things you need to transform your world into something much more fun were just lying around the house and it was just the way that they were mixed together that could make everything (relatively) better! Much like the books in Matilda provide the grounded form of escapism in a slightly more benign way!

Post Reply