Charlie Chaplin and Criterion

The scuttlebutt on Criterion, Eclipse, and Janus Films. Lists and polls are STRONGLY discouraged.
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knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#126 Post by knives » Tue May 25, 2010 1:15 am

I doubt anyone here is calling in to question Chaplin's genius, though I and several others here could have that debate if you wanted, but rather expressing that the re-edits shouldn't get primary care because they are revisionism of the most annoying kind.

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david hare
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#127 Post by david hare » Tue May 25, 2010 1:40 am

The 42 is definitely what we would now call "revisionism". And to me it's almost egregious, despite being the work of the author. But unlike, say, Beatrice Welles and her "authorized" versions of Macbeth and Othello whch attempt to lock out the originals, the Estate at least always included the 25 original. But only ever as an afterthought.

There are a number of issues at stake here, quite apart from my (and others') personal opinion of the two versions. One is the enormous extent to which the 42 version cuts material out. This in itself is an historical fact, and indeed Chaplin worked over and worked over films and individual scenes and gags for years. But this was before releasing them. The problems for Gold Rush all arise because Chaplin's own revisions seem to be founded on the notion that the film required a major updating for "contemporary" audiences (in 42) down to the apparent need for a VO, and that hideous music and all the missing footage. That's fair enough and as historical, ontological fact the 42 version has to be included. But it needs to be seen alongside the 25 for posterity (whatever that is) to make its judgment.

As for my "Fucking the Chaplin estate", if these sources from MK2 so far are any indiication they appear to have not done, or ignored any major preservation or serious restoration of the materials since they received their last major theatrical reissues in the early 70s (which is when I first saw most of them.) This is in stark contrast to the old Disney catalogue, and the invocation is not coincidental.

The state of the elements is a real concern to me.

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bearcuborg
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#128 Post by bearcuborg » Tue May 25, 2010 3:55 pm

I understand where you are coming from, but your "fuck the Chaplin estate" just came off as internet posturing. For the Gold Rush screenings the Chaplin estate always sends the 1925 version. In fact, the estate has cooperated with the Kevin Brownlow and his restoration crew since the mid 70's, a relationship that continues today - Brownlow was questioned about this while attending a silent film festival in Italy last year. I understand the bitterness of Beatrice Welles and the idiotic Marcel Ophuls position on Lola Montes looms over most of our filmmaker/family rights issues, but there's no cause to bash the Chaplin people. My only complaint would be to swinging the doors open to get a full look at Chaplin's vault. I would love to see the films he discarded and to read the crown jewel - The Freak script.

By the way, I do find the 1942 version charming in it's own way, because Chaplin is a such a gifted storyteller and has a soothing voice - however, I find the ending too sweet when compared to the '25 version.
Last edited by bearcuborg on Wed May 26, 2010 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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david hare
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#129 Post by david hare » Wed May 26, 2010 7:44 am

Well it would also be nice to see Sternberg's Edna Purviance vehicle, Woman of the Sea, but thanks to the Chaplin Estate, avant la lettre, that's impossible.

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Minkin
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#130 Post by Minkin » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:43 pm


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swo17
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#131 Post by swo17 » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:58 pm

Is this the first official confirmation of the titles that Janus has the rights to? Perhaps not surprising, but that site lists all the films Jeff predicted here, with the exception of The Bond.

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Matt
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#132 Post by Matt » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:04 pm

Omigod omigod omigod! They got Kate Beaton to do the poster. Perfect match of subject to artist. I hope she does illustrations for all the eventual covers.

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Murdoch
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#133 Post by Murdoch » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:13 pm

Matt wrote:Omigod omigod omigod! They got Kate Beaton to do the poster. Perfect match of subject to artist. I hope she does illustrations for all the eventual covers.
This would have been my exact post if I had found out first :wink:

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eljacko
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#134 Post by eljacko » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:21 pm

It looks absolutely stunning - a poster I would definitely order if given the chance.

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matrixschmatrix
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm

Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#135 Post by matrixschmatrix » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Matt wrote:Omigod omigod omigod! They got Kate Beaton to do the poster. Perfect match of subject to artist. I hope she does illustrations for all the eventual covers.
Oh my god, that is amazing.

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perkizitore
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#136 Post by perkizitore » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:08 pm

Is Film Desk the US distributor? They advertise Le Amiche on their page with a font that looks suspiciously similar to the Studio Canal collection one, so hopefully this will get a blu-ray release soon.

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Jeff
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#137 Post by Jeff » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:30 pm

perkizitore wrote:Is Film Desk the US distributor?
The Film Desk still has U.S. theatrical distribution rights for Monsieur Verdoux, so until those rights expire, Janus is collaborating with them to include it in the retrospective. Criterion has the DVD rights for the film. That is the extent of The Film Desk's involvement.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#138 Post by domino harvey » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:01 pm

Matt wrote:Omigod omigod omigod! They got Kate Beaton to do the poster. Perfect match of subject to artist. I hope she does illustrations for all the eventual covers.
Would totally redeem the direction Criterion's covers have taken lately. IE: Won't happen

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Matt
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#139 Post by Matt » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:33 pm

Yeah, it will be like that time Keiko Kimura did that cute illustration for Rialto's release of Masculine Feminine and then Criterion put [url=http://criterion_production.s3.amazonaws.com/release_images/1028/308_box_348x490.jpg]Chantal Goya's passport photo on the DVD cover[/url].

jackford
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#140 Post by jackford » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:49 pm

Countess from Hong Kong continues to get the shaft. The film is classic Chaplin, and whether or not the film has been continuously maligned since it's initial release(unfairly so) it still deserves a spot with these films, as it is still Chaplin's final work and Chaplin himself considered it his best film along with City Lights at the end of his life. Andrew Sarris also called it "the quintessence of everything Chaplin has ever felt."

Intrestingly, all of Chaplin's talking pictures are infused with a profound sense of pessimism. Not that it was a bad thing by any means. However, this (and the final sequence from Limelight with Keaton) is the only talking film which Chaplin was able to convey the magnificent sense of poetry from his Tramp pictures.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1967/ ... ng-palong/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This here is the article that made me revisit the film, and as a result, truly discover it for the first time. I think it's a masterpiece, and it distresses me on a small level to see it constantly passed over.

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domino harvey
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#141 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:53 pm

It would handily make a list of the ten worst films I've ever seen

jackford
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#142 Post by jackford » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:09 pm

Haha. Nevertheless it still warrents a place in this collection. I can't think of any other film that can raise my spirits so when watching it. It's really a companion piece to The Immigrant. At least look at again!
Last edited by jackford on Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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knives
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#143 Post by knives » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:17 pm

It most definitely warrants a place next to Border Radio.

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captveg
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#144 Post by captveg » Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:10 pm

Whether it warrants a place in the collection or not, it would necessitate a separate license agreement from Universal, rather than the license agreement with the Chaplin Estate/MK2 that these other films are from.

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prokosch
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#145 Post by prokosch » Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:03 pm

Matt wrote:Omigod omigod omigod! They got Kate Beaton to do the poster. Perfect match of subject to artist. I hope she does illustrations for all the eventual covers.
I just about hit the roof when I saw that poster -- and her name -- in the Criterion newsletter, not least because I went to university with her and, yeah, that's just weird. WEIRD, I tells you. That's the poster. If that ends up being the artwork for the DVDs... well, we're through the looking glass here, people.

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matrixschmatrix
Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:26 pm

Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#146 Post by matrixschmatrix » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:29 pm

prokosch wrote:
Matt wrote:Omigod omigod omigod! They got Kate Beaton to do the poster. Perfect match of subject to artist. I hope she does illustrations for all the eventual covers.
I just about hit the roof when I saw that poster -- and her name -- in the Criterion newsletter, not least because I went to university with her and, yeah, that's just weird. WEIRD, I tells you. That's the poster. If that ends up being the artwork for the DVDs... well, we're through the looking glass here, people.
Yeah, she used to post on a board I frequented, until she blew up and then got run off by creepy fanboys. It's bizarre to have someone you know, even in the incredibly slight 'chatted with on the internet' kind of way, spill into something like this.

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Matt
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#147 Post by Matt » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:36 am


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Jeff
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#148 Post by Jeff » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:43 am

Yes, it should be handled with Kid gloves. To be fair, it looks like she is only touching the edge and tilting it back to get a better view. Surely the Criterion staff are generally very careful with such things. I guess this article ("we are working with the Cineteca (and the Charlie Chaplin estate) on restorations of some Chaplin films that we will be releasing over the next couple of years") and picture should alleviate any concerns about Criterion using the same compromised masters as Kinowelt and Park Circus.

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dadaistnun
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:31 am

Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#149 Post by dadaistnun » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:49 am

"This new high definition digital transfer was created on a Spirit Datacine from the original 35mm camera negative. Thousands of instances of dirt, debris, scratches, splices, warps, jitter, flicker, and Fumiko Takagi's fingerprints were manually removed using MTI's DR5 system and Pixel Farm's PFClean system."

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Finch
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Re: The Charlie Chaplin Speculation Thread

#150 Post by Finch » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:20 pm

dadaistnun wrote:Fumiko Takagi's fingerprints were manually removed using MTI's DR5 system and Pixel Farm's PFClean system."
LOL

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