Blu-only Releases?

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Caligula
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#101 Post by Caligula » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:49 am

The issue of being able to upgrade, can be absolute (if you lived under a bridge, say, but then you probably wouldn't have a DVD player & screen anyway) or relative.

I'd like to think of myself as a music enthusiast. Music is an aural experience, right? So hence you'd want to hear your discs in the best possible format & played in the best possible way, right? Logically it flows that we should all have reference-quality (Stereophile-type) sound systems in our living-rooms, all have SACD/DVD-Audio playback facilities, every recording on SACD where possible and rebuy every disc whenever a remaster appears. With me it doesn't work that way. I earn SA Rands, not Dollars or Pound Sterling and I have to consider where my (currently drastically reduced) disposable income is best spent, in view of my responsibilities (family), and other priorities (recreation, holidays etc). With that in mind, as well as the law of diminishing returns, I have to draw a line for myself somewhere. I did spent a sizable amount on my current setup (Panasonic 42" plasma screen, Denon player & surround amp & Kef 5.1 surround speakers with extra sub for 5.0 discs) and it gives both my family & myself a lot of joy. I suppose I could postpone necessary improvements on my home to buy better cabling, bigger speakers and the like, but, as I said, its got to stop somewhere and, besides, I don't want my living room to look like a sound studio.

Coming back to BD: I do not dispute that it improves on DVD. The improvement is just not to such an extent that I can persuade myself (let alone my wife) to spend money that could have been spent on other things (school fees, redoing the bathrooms, the list is endless) on new hardware (just the player in this country will cost a fortune - relative to the average South African middle-class income) and the accompanying discs.

I sympathise with Nick and his (laudable) striving to present important films in the best way possible. If MoC goes BD-only, it'll sadly leave me behind as one of those who (relatively-speaking, but still) is unable to upgrade. I was really looking forward to City Girl being given the MoC treatment, but will have to wait for the film to surface in a decent DVD-edition in some other region. If it wasn't for the packaging issues with the Murnau/Fox set I'd have seriously considered going that route, but after my experience with the MGM Hitchcock set, I'm wary of spending a lot of cash on a set that arrives looking like fruit salad, and then having all the hassles of returning it.

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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#102 Post by MortenR. » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:52 am

One aspect that has not been discussed is the fact that the blu-ray editions will attract a bunch of new buyers, who might not have bough the DVD series of MoC, but discover their films due to the new blu-ray series. How big this groups is I don't know, but I happen to be one of them. Having been buying DVDs since 1998, I slowed down my buying for these last 3-4 years and did not realise the emergence of MoC. With blu-ray my appetite for home theater films have returned and I have been buying a lot of blu-rays these last two years. This way I have discovered the MoC series and have bought all the blu-rays. But even if I am tempted to buy the DVDs too, I use so much money on blu-ray, that I just never get around to buying the DVDs. Thus your switch to blu-ray have secured a new costumer and I would not hesitate to buy all your new blu-ray editions.
O:)

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tenia
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#103 Post by tenia » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:29 am

peerpee wrote:It boils down to sheer units sold. If we sold 10 times more DVD than Blu-ray, we wouldn't be suggesting going Blu-ray only --- but the ratio is more 50/50 so it makes sense to think hard about what we're doing, and where we're going to be in 3-4 years time.
So basically, you're wondering if, right now, at this time, it's a good option to just kicked out half of your customers, hoping that YOU will be the difference that they didn't see in 3 years, and that they will suddenly go to their banker for a loan for upgrading.

It still seems pretty funny for me, but I understand that all figures are probably pointing that they will uprgrade soon. It just seems for me to make predictions, but, hey ! you're the ones who's having all the figures.

I just hope that people are really ready to put $600 in their loyalty for you. Caus if it's not, you will have only half of your customers left for 6 months to a year. I don't think it will be easy to survive like this very long. It sure is a ballsy move, but I'm not sure how safe it is.

As Caligula put it very nicely, I just think that doing it now will leave a lot of people behind. People who will not be able to upgrade, and will just see the movies they're craving to see for so long passing right under their eyes, but not for them, only for people who are able to spend money in the upgrade.
Basically, I agree : it's kind of a class war. And I don't think that movies, and culture in general, should be victim of class wars.

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Ben Cheshire
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#104 Post by Ben Cheshire » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:40 am

tenia wrote:So basically, you're wondering if, right now, at this time, it's a good option to just kicked out half of your customers... I don't think it will be easy to survive like this very long. It sure is ballsy, but I'm not sure how safe it is.
You aren't being kicked out, sorry, I mean they aren't. There's a whole back catalogue of SD MoC there to consume and catch up on; I say if you're rich enough to own all of that and you're interested in City Girl, you're rich enough to upgrade.

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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#105 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:52 am

I'm trying to remember when the BFI stopped producing VHS releases - I think there was a five-year overlap where both DVD and VHS were running concurrently (I certainly recall the Archive Television range from 2002-4 coming out on tape as well), but VHS had definitely been completely dumped by 2005-6, and I'm pretty sure DVD-only releases were the norm well before then.

Mind you, I suspect the market might be slightly different - MoC is almost exclusively aimed at arthouse film buffs, whereas the BFI's catalogue is much more diverse. For instance, I suspect it took the average British Transport Films fan a fair bit of time to get into DVD, and I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that catalogue to be replicated on Blu any time soon!

But I think ballsy gestures are very much needed in this market - the BFI hasn't done a Blu-ray only release yet, but I can think of at least three cases where the Blu-ray release is superior to the DVD over and above the HD picture (Herostratus offers two framings, while The Other Side of the Underneath and Man of Violence offer two alternative cuts via seamless branching). Not really through choice, but because Blu-ray offers certain advantages over DVD in a way that DVD did over VHS - and the more people start really exploring the potential of the format, the wider the gap will become.

As I said earlier, Blu-ray is certainly less convenient for me than DVD at the moment, but that will change (I only had one DVD player for many, many years!), and it certainly isn't a good enough reason to reject Nick's proposal.

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brendanjc
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#106 Post by brendanjc » Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:55 am

Ben Cheshire wrote:
tenia wrote:So basically, you're wondering if, right now, at this time, it's a good option to just kicked out half of your customers... I don't think it will be easy to survive like this very long. It sure is ballsy, but I'm not sure how safe it is.
You aren't being kicked out, sorry, I mean they aren't. There's a whole back catalogue of SD MoC there to consume and catch up on; I say if you're rich enough to own all of that and you're interested in City Girl, you're rich enough to upgrade.
Exactly, I think this is the point swo was trying to make earlier. In most territories (perhaps not all) purchasing a BD player isn't orders of magnitude more expensive than a handful of MoC / Criterion releases. Caligula mentioned the Murnau/Borzage box; here in the US this weekend I could pick up a new BD player and a spare for less than that set would run me. If you add on a new TV, surround system, etc., then the price gets steep pretty quickly but just getting the equipment needed to play the discs probably isn't a tall order for most in the niche DVD company's customer base. As peerpee already pointed out, MoC is furthest out along the Blu adoption curve - I'm sure that is not unrelated to the fact that people who buy their discs will tend to be more affluent, on average, than your typical consumer. Obviously this will hurt people who can't afford to upgrade now, but the discs you miss out on will still be there in a year or three and if MoC go Blu-only there will ultimately be more of them! :)

As to the mathematical argument, of course dropping SD will mean a loss of some percentage of sales in the short-term but the thought behind switching in the face of that must be that the increased production capacity in the long-term will more than make up for it.

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TMDaines
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#107 Post by TMDaines » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:21 am

zedz wrote:Would this be the first Blu exclusive release in the UK?
No there is probably at least a couple dozen Blu exclusives. These releases were all Blu exclusive I believe. At least Katharina Blum was.

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TMDaines
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#108 Post by TMDaines » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:26 am

tenia wrote:As Caligula put it very nicely, I just think that doing it now will leave a lot of people behind. People who will not be able to upgrade, and will just see the movies they're craving to see for so long passing right under their eyes, but not for them, only for people who are able to spend money in the upgrade.
Basically, I agree : it's kind of a class war. And I don't think that movies, and culture in general, should be victim of class wars.
I think another question that should be asked is: how many of the people being left behind (who are not Blu enabled) will (A) just import other DVD releases of the same film from other countries or regions, will (B) upgrade to be Blu enabled or will (C) do neither and not have the film. I see a lot more doing (A) or (C) rather (B).

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tenia
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#109 Post by tenia » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:39 am

Ben Cheshire wrote:
tenia wrote:So basically, you're wondering if, right now, at this time, it's a good option to just kicked out half of your customers... I don't think it will be easy to survive like this very long. It sure is ballsy, but I'm not sure how safe it is.
You aren't being kicked out, sorry, I mean they aren't. There's a whole back catalogue of SD MoC there to consume and catch up on; I say if you're rich enough to own all of that and you're interested in City Girl, you're rich enough to upgrade.
If all the next MoC releases are Br only, I will be kicked out. And I'm assuming that regular buyers from MoC have already bought and watch the releases they were interested in.
Fact is, if I want to see City Girl, I will have to buy the Fox/Borzage box set if they don't release it in DVD.
I don't see myself spending $200 + shipping fees for a single movie in a shitty box.

If I have to buy a player just for watching the movie, I don't see the improvement for myself, as I won't even have a HD screen to see it on.

Basically, it will just be a $200 movie for me. And I don't want to buy a non-region free BR Player. So thanks for the money-spending.

I'm have $50 to spend a month for their releases. Not $200. And, as I said, I won't even be able to enjoy the improvements from HD as I won't even have a HD TV Screen or a Sound System.

If the BR disc of City Girl is there in five years, great.
But the fact is, I won't be able to buy it. Cause I will already have a lot of others stuffs to buy.

If I was listening to myself, I will spend $500 a month. I don't have it, so I have to choose. And thus, I start to have a list of things I would have like buying. It becomes bigger and bigger. And that's just now. I'm a student, I use subway, and I don't pay taxes.

When I will upgrade, I will have a lot more spendings other than movies. And 2000 Frence releases to catch. I won't import, cause the shipping fees could be the money for an other French release.
Fortunately, some French editor (MK2 or Carlotta I assume) will have release City Girl in DVD, cause the French market is much colder for old movies in HD than UK or US ones.

But I won't be able to see the movie until this time. Cause I don't have the money to spend right now.

Of course, I'm speaking for myself, not for everyone.

But I really think that people who don't have right now the money to upgrade will feel like they're left behind for financial reasons. And I don't think, I know how naive it sounds but whatever, that it will be a nice feeling to see movies like City Girl only available to "rich / hedonist" people.

Imo, it's restraining at the very beginning the visibility and the diffusion of the movie.

And I don't think that the BR market will be that huge in a few years cause if in three years, people still don't see the wow factor in HD, they probably won't see it at all, but we already spoke of that in an other thread.

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tenia
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#110 Post by tenia » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:44 am

TMDaines wrote:
tenia wrote:As Caligula put it very nicely, I just think that doing it now will leave a lot of people behind. People who will not be able to upgrade, and will just see the movies they're craving to see for so long passing right under their eyes, but not for them, only for people who are able to spend money in the upgrade.
Basically, I agree : it's kind of a class war. And I don't think that movies, and culture in general, should be victim of class wars.
I think another question that should be asked is: how many of the people being left behind (who are not Blu enabled) will (A) just import other DVD releases of the same film from other countries or regions, will (B) upgrade to be Blu enabled or will (C) do neither and not have the film. I see a lot more doing (A) or (C) rather (B).
Exactly, that's the real deal. I think that the money issue from the buyers isn't enough put in the balance.

Import cost money (shipping fees mostly,) and time (2 weeks delay) and is complicated in case of problems with the delivery.

BR upgrading is investement. You have to put money at one time, and upgrade your player (that have to be region free for both DVD and BR), your TV and your sound system. Otherwise, you won't enjoy the improvements of HD. Money, time and space taking.

Not having the movie is just plain painful. Thinking that I won't be to see City Girl cause of money, but that I could have seen it but the editor didn't see the point of releasing in DVD (or in a single edition) is really painful.

But, hey, they do what they want anyway. They have the movies and the figures. Again, 25 opinions here are not the market.

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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#111 Post by Miguel M Santos » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:48 am

I can only speak for myself, but here it goes. I don't have many MoC DVDs although I do own a couple, rented a few others and own different editions of at least one of the titles (the Sirk) because it came out first in France. I do however buy a large number of classic films per month, therefore I am always a potencial customer for MoC. I'm also based in the London so I don't have to deal with custom charges.

I can't justify to myself buying the R1 Murnau/Borzage box (the price and customs are too high for what amounts to a nearly blind buy), so I was quite happy with the recent BFI releases and looking forward to City Girl. Part of it is a question of personal timing and a process of (re)discovering Murnau. I am not a completist, and I am not interested in every single release. I am however an impulse buyer as my ever growing collection testifies (lost count, but I suspect between 700-800 titles). I also live in a rented flatshare so the investment of buying a home theatre system is nonsensical and if I don't do it, then there's no point of going to Blu. I'm not very vocal here but I don't think I am the only MoC (potential) customer in these circumstances. Do you really want to alienate all of us in one go?
Last edited by Miguel M Santos on Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:53 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#112 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:50 am

On the subject of the cost of upgrades, one thing that's worth pointing out is that you don't need an expensive surround sound system for much of this stuff.

My Blu-ray player currently goes through my TV speakers (separate speakers and associated cables just aren't practical with two small and insatiably curious children), and it really isn't an issue for the most part - I think virtually all the BFI Blu-rays are in mono, and much the same is true of the MoCs (Soul Power being the major exception).

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The Elegant Dandy Fop
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#113 Post by The Elegant Dandy Fop » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:54 am

tenia wrote:
TMDaines wrote:
tenia wrote:As Caligula put it very nicely, I just think that doing it now will leave a lot of people behind. People who will not be able to upgrade, and will just see the movies they're craving to see for so long passing right under their eyes, but not for them, only for people who are able to spend money in the upgrade.
Basically, I agree : it's kind of a class war. And I don't think that movies, and culture in general, should be victim of class wars.
I think another question that should be asked is: how many of the people being left behind (who are not Blu enabled) will (A) just import other DVD releases of the same film from other countries or regions, will (B) upgrade to be Blu enabled or will (C) do neither and not have the film. I see a lot more doing (A) or (C) rather (B).
BR upgrading is investement. You have to put money at one time, and upgrade your player (that have to be region free for both DVD and BR), your TV and your sound system. Otherwise, you won't enjoy the improvements of HD. Money, time and space taking.
Let's be real: I'm not sure at what part of the world you live in and what importing costs are, but I got a great region free Blu-Ray/DVD player for $250. I get paid only 12.75 an hour and on this wage, after paying bills and rent, I was still able to swing for the player and I'm able to get more films with each check. Trust me. You don't need to crazy sound system or the most expensive TV. I got an HDTV that I won in a contest that goes for only goes for five-hundred in stores and looks great for what it is (27'' Olevia that's 1080i, it isn't even full Hi-def and stuff looks amazing on it still). I use the built in speakers. I have no desire for a crazy sound system and I believe the type of films I own won't really benefit from a huge sound system. We're talking City Girl, not Transformers or something. The desire for a complicated home-theater system is ridiculous for these types of films.

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tenia
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#114 Post by tenia » Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:35 am

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote: Let's be real: I'm not sure at what part of the world you live in and what importing costs are, but I got a great region free Blu-Ray/DVD player for $250. I get paid only 12.75 an hour and on this wage, after paying bills and rent, I was still able to swing for the player and I'm able to get more films with each check. Trust me. You don't need to crazy sound system or the most expensive TV. I got an HDTV that I won in a contest that goes for only goes for five-hundred in stores and looks great for what it is (27'' Olevia that's 1080i, it isn't even full Hi-def and stuff looks amazing on it still). I use the built in speakers. I have no desire for a crazy sound system and I believe the type of films I own won't really benefit from a huge sound system. We're talking City Girl, not Transformers or something. The desire for a complicated home-theater system is ridiculous for these types of films.
In France.
Region free player : you paid yours $250 so around 200€. It's more than my monthly income left when you take my flat monthly price, taxes, internet and everything. It represents 10 brand new French releases in DVD. Easily double that for second hand DVDs. 20 movies in a month, or nothing.
An HD TV ? 350€. Minimum. I'm speaking for a 26" LCD non Full HD.
Sound System ? 100€.

So, if City Girl is only released in HD, I will either go for the shitty $200 Fox Borzage box, or upgrade for 650€. It's 3 months income.

You ridiculized the home-theater for that types of film, I would so "so what about the advantages of BR ?".
Fact is, if I want to upgrade, I prefer to spend a little more than just the minimum. In case I end up buying Avatar BR some day.

I won't buy, in the end, a HD system only for City Girl, so I won't restrain my HC for it. But I won't upgrade for a single movie either.
So I will end up either waiting for an other SD release, or won't see the movie at all.

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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#115 Post by MichaelB » Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:49 am

tenia wrote:Sound System ? 100€.
Sound system should be zero, if you're not using a speaker-free monitor for viewing. I've been managing fine with plain stereo for well over a year now, and of course have the option of upgrading when I can justify the expense.
You ridiculized the home-theater for that types of film, I would so "so what about the advantages of BR ?".
Fact is, if I want to upgrade, I prefer to spend a little more than just the minimum. In case I end up buying Avatar BR some day.
My BR system consists of a Sony PS3 plugged into an HD-compatible plasma. That's it - and it'll do me very nicely for ages yet. I daresay you'd end up spending a fair bit less than I did too, as I was a relatively early adopter (I waited for the format war to declare a winner, but took the plunge pretty soon afterwards).

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bigP
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#116 Post by bigP » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:09 am

I've enjoyed reading this thread and appreciate Peerpee's bringing this to the forum. I understand it is a tough decision, and if it were Universal or Warner I would throw my hands up in the air and state "war were declared" and that they are making a huge mistake in their logic. However, as MichaelB pointed out, MOC are a focussed company but have limited appeal to a mass audience. They are niche and are pushing boundaries with their Blu-Ray releases (Sunrise being the first silent Blu-Ray (I believe this is correct!?!), and appears to be topping many lists of best Blu release of the year at that) and are rightly commended, but I can understand that these boundaries come at a price. I would rather see MOC continue in this business for as long as this business exists than see them fold under an already unstable economic climate because a part of their audience (for whatever reason - and I mean this with the greatest respect) do not have the ability to change.

I have a desktop with a Blu-Ray / SD-DVD player. I do not have an HD monitor or the time and money to go purchase one. I only own one Blu-Ray which was bought for a few reasons - wanting to see the film, trying out my Blu-Ray capabilities, it happened to be a combo pack of Blu-Ray, SD-DVD and (redundant) Digital Copy, and it only cost £12.99. The reason I don't own more Blu-Ray discs is mainly a price issue (and for a lesser vanity reason, the ugly cases), although this is becoming less apparent with MOC SD and Blu being seperated by roughly a pound or two in price now. If Blu were to be exclusive, i'm certain the extra pound or two would drop into line. My inability to see blu-ray at it's full effect (or with even slight improvement) does not worry me; if I can see the film it's enough for me, the aesthetics of the disc and picture quality really do come second (and I speak only for myself) and if I did not own a Blu-Ray player of any sort, i'd start saving as it appears Blu-Ray is here to stay and given the mass demand for all things new and shiny, it is going to be the primary system in years to come (some companies are already adopting Blu exclusive extra features - all in order to sway people to that side of the bridge; it won't be long before large companies put out a Blu-Exclusive line but wont have MOC's class in bring the topic to a public forum to hear consumer opinion). The fact that Blu-Ray players are also backwards compatible is very much a selling point (for me) of the new format - as I would imagine it would be very very unlikey I would upgrade any dvd I own as I just don't have the money to do so.

As the Blu climate changes, so will the price of the players. This will almost certainly happen and in very short time - particularly as Blu-Ray starts to become the norm and the companies that are building the Blu-Ray systems will no longer see their customers as rubes, and will not be able to take advantage of them any more as the production line will become competitive and smaller companies will be able to build and market budget players. It happened with DVD players (my aunt bought a rediculous tank sized player for £400. The following year, I bought two for £50 that are still going whilst hers was binned long ago), with digital camera's and it will happen with Blu. If you can eventually afford to buy a Blu-Ray player, there's really nothing lost. You can still watch SD-DVDs on the system (probably with marginally improved quality) as well as Blu-Ray. The HD system can come second, as by sticking with SD you weren't going to appreciate that quality anyway.

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Tommaso
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#117 Post by Tommaso » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:32 am

One thing that went through my mind the last few days was the possible breakdown of my current DVD player. It works perfectly at the moment, but you know, they don't last forever. So of course if I needed a new player anyway, the next one would be Blu. Now excuse my complete lack of knowledge, but what are Blu players' capacities of playing other formats than Blu and DVD? My current DVD player also plays DVD-A, SACD and is 'Ultra divX certified' (whatever that means exactly, but unlike some other players I've seen it is able to display srt.-subs, for instance). Now, I would be loath not to have these extra possibilities any longer with a Blu player, not least because I agree with Caligula about the improvement of SACD over standard CD. So I very much assume that such a multi-standard-player would still be needed in addition to a multi-region Blu; but I'd be glad to hear otherwise.

Sorry if this is the wrong thread to ask this, but for me the question of Blu or SD also extends to these other formats.

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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#118 Post by Hou-Hsiao » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:12 am

I've read this thread, over the last 4-5 pages, with a pit of disappointment forming in my gut, everything i have read from MoC's officials has left me with my head in my hands... the tone frankly, is insulting to those that made MoC what it is today and those that continued to buy from them from the start.

First of all, terms like Un-willing to upgrade are just unfair, obviously you assume that everyone sees Blu-Ray as the way forward but frankly that is just not true. I know the argument, and that everyone will claim i am living in the past but to be honest, i can't see Blu-Ray taking off and leaving DVD obsolete anytime soon, and by leaving the Dvd users in the dark you are avoiding and ignoring a very large segment of the market. To be fair, so far your output on BR so far has been pretty, random and erratic - to those people who have never heard of Master of Cinema i find it very unlikely that they will jump on the bandwagon after seeing such obscure titles as Tokyo Sonata and Mad Detective - both quite in-approachable titles for those not solely interested in cinema.

Secondly, though it may be costly, i can't see how going all blu-ray is going to sort out any financial problems, and though you say it is from 'the heart' i find that unlikely considering half your customers use dvd players and buy the dvd releases and now you are shunning them - that's hardly very loving if you ask me.

Frankly, the 'bottom line' as i see it is that i have just been kicked aside, i am not willing to purchase a blu-ray player until it is official a must, and right now that just isn't the case. DVD has more accessibility right now with the addition of being able to play in on computers etc and in a job like mine - a film studies teacher, i find it much easier to use dvd, and yet i am a customer who has 90% of your catalog so far and was really enjoying your output. I deem this as a total lack of respect to me and other customers who stayed loyal to you.

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subliminac
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Re: 86/8 City Girl

#119 Post by subliminac » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:52 am

Couple of questions: If you decide to go Blu "exclusive," it would only be for titles where the master is good enough for an HD release, while for those which weren't it would end up on DVD, correct? An example of the latter would be the upcoming Chantal Akerman box for instance, since I assume you are using the same masters as those used for the Belgian and Criterion editions. You also stated that you would be able to release more titles if you stopped producing in dual formats. Would this in the end then be something of a wash for your non Blu-upgraded customers, in that their loss when it comes to Blu-only releases could be made up for in additional new titles?

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Ben Cheshire
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Re: Blu-only Releases?

#120 Post by Ben Cheshire » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:14 am

Thread-split! A pretty sensible one, I guess.

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willoneill
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Re: Blu-only Releases?

#121 Post by willoneill » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:47 am

This may be way overly simplistic, but I think it needs noting. I truly believe that Blu-Ray is going to make it as mainstream format, and I say that as someone who didn't always believe that. This is just a gut reaction, not based on any statistics, since people can use statistics to prove anything (72% of all people know that). Anyway, as such, I believe that eventually, there will be releases that are Blu only. There already are, in a way, in the form of exclusive versions (The Da Vinci Code Extended Version, for lack of a better example). So my point is, someone is going to be the first to release a Blu-only film, so why not it be MoC?

Hou-Hsiao
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:03 am

Re: Blu-only Releases?

#122 Post by Hou-Hsiao » Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:48 pm

as someone said on another forum:
Well I guess Eureka won't be lasting much longer - if they had the sales they'd be able to make the decision. And a few specialists on an American site can't possibly describe the totality of their market.

So - I guess it looks like this is the last year I'll be buying Masters of Cinema releases. C'est la vie. I'm still not wasting my money on Blu Ray.

akaten

Re: 86/8 City Girl

#123 Post by akaten » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:30 pm

subliminac wrote:Couple of questions: If you decide to go Blu "exclusive," it would only be for titles where the master is good enough for an HD release, while for those which weren't it would end up on DVD, correct? An example of the latter would be the upcoming Chantal Akerman box for instance, since I assume you are using the same masters as those used for the Belgian and Criterion editions. You also stated that you would be able to release more titles if you stopped producing in dual formats. Would this in the end then be something of a wash for your non Blu-upgraded customers, in that their loss when it comes to Blu-only releases could be made up for in additional new titles?
By that logic the current situation is 'something of a wash for Blu-upgraded customers' who would like to see resources dedicated to dual format going to new titles on the label. Basically it gets us nowhere taking a zero sum game approach to this, its just a shame hat some of those who have yet to upgrade (rather than those who have no intention of doing so) cannot take a pragmatic approach and offer to pick them up at a later date. Which is how I am approaching Criterion rather slow uptake of Blu Ray unless others such as Studio Canal wish to fill the void.

Perhaps a compromise is needed for the Feb 2010 line up, M Blu-Ray only (Criterion version readily available on DVD) with City Girl on Blu-Ray and DVD for those who don't want the Fox set.

@Hou-Hsiao - where's that suicide emoticon when you need it?

Hou-Hsiao
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:03 am

Re: Blu-only Releases?

#124 Post by Hou-Hsiao » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:33 pm

The way you talk about Blu-Ray customers as if they are of higher importance, and that they deserve more time spent on their format, without actually showing any real evidence that Blu-ray itself will take over the market.

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zedz
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:24 pm

Re: Blu-only Releases?

#125 Post by zedz » Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:16 pm

Thanks for the reply, Peerpee. That sounds reasonable and good luck.

I can understand some of the feelings of resentment being expressed here, but I think some perspective needs to be restored. The DVD era seems to have encouraged a sense of cinephilic entitlement ("I have to see this film right now!" - which sometimes includes the corollary "even if I have to steal it!") that's really alien to me, having grown up when most of these films were extremely elusive. For twenty years or more, I assumed that I'd never get a chance to see City Girl, in any form or format. So this notion that not being able to buy the disc and view it on the day of release is a personal affront seems quite bizarre. If the technology persists, the disc will still be there in two, three, four years time. That's a hell of a lot better than not being able to see the film at all.

Even if you are - through no fault of your own - DVD-locked for the next several years, the backlog of essential titles available to view on that format (and new ones being released, by MoC and others) could keep you busy ten times as long, and City Girl will still be around when you ultimately make the change.

When I found out that long-sought titles like Double Suicide and the long cut of Andrey Rublyov were available on DVD, and I didn't have a player, I didn't get angry, I got giddy with excitement. I saved up for a player, plugged it into my old CRT (only upgraded that this week) and lived happily ever after, and I'm still catching up on important releases that were released before I bought the player.

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