25 Vampyr

[mfunk9786]

DVD Beaver review & comparison.

[Finch]

Supposedly, Del Toro's commentary's excellent. If this is confirmed by Gary's own review and other forum members, I might have to double-dip after all. The 80 page booklet sounds very tempting as well. (Pity though that MoC didn't stick with their original artwork of Allan Gray's POV shot of Marguerite Chopin - it's a powerful image and more "timeless"; the new cover with the IMO far too cluttered original poster did nothing for me personally; would have been nice to have had the first artwork on the inside sleeve).

[Bleddyn Williams]

DVD Beaver review & comparison.

Got to love that "far more theatrical feel" line as regards the MoC. The Criterion & MoC to me look very very similar, but each showing some different damage, and in one occasion, the MoC has a nasty splice line near the top.

Looks to me like one would be happy with either.

[denti alligator]

Criterion looks slightly sharper, but only slightly.

MoC looks cleaner, though. Interesting differences. Still psyched to have both!

[jsteffe]

The question I have is whether the Masters of Cinema version adjusted the audio track pitch to compensate for the 4% PAL speedup... I love Zeller's musical score and would probably notice the difference in this case.

Still, why not simply buy both versions?

[Felix]

The question I have is whether the Masters of Cinema version adjusted the audio track pitch to compensate for the 4% PAL speedup... I love Zeller's musical score and would probably notice the difference in this case

I am not so sure you would actually. Linn, of the great Linn Sondek turntable, demonstrated 30 years ago that we are not, IIRC, very susceptible to increased speed at all, though we are to variations in speed. To that effect Linn installed a separate function in the turntable that equalises and smooths the electric from the mains supply to ensure the speed does not vary (don't get on my case if I have the techno details wrong here, it was a long time ago... Some of my friends used to bypass the fuse box altogether for their HiFi to get the purest sound).

I have wondered whether the same is true visually of PAL speed up but I haven't a scooby on that one, and ears and eyes are different.

EDIT: I am not sure how all this would work, if at all, for someone with perfect pitch...

[MichaelB]

DVD Outsider - who has absolutely sold me on the MoC version over the Criterion.

This is what he has to say about the Del Toro commentary:

A major coup for the Masters of Cinema series, given that no such track appeared on the recent US release by Criterion, who must be kicking themselves for letting this one slip by. One of the leading fantasy filmmakers working today – his films include The Devil's Backbone and Pan's Labyrinth, as well as two genre-advancing vampire movies, Cronos and Blade 2 – del Toro has both a passion for and an extensive knowledge of the genre he works in and has a particular love for Vampyr, which he believes is Dreyer's masterpiece. As with all of the best del Toro commentaries this is both bristling with detail and entertaining – up front he describes his contribution as "the equivalent of inviting a fat Mexican to your house, feed him, and then you have to listen to him for mercifully a short time and then disagree, agree, insult or share any of my opinions." Del Toro sees the film as a cinematic memento mori, and don't worry, he provides a full history of that particular artistic genre, along with a detailed examination of the film's style and complex substructure, particularly, as a Catholic, its religious reading. There are some lovely moments in here, particularly his assertion that Jean Cocteau was a magician but Dreyer was a prophet, and his gorgeous description of the surrealists as "beautiful savages of the id." Wouldn't you have loved to have said that? I was also amused (although perhaps a little deflated as I thought I'd scored a minor coup) that I was not the only one who'd spotted the similarities between the village doctor and Professor Abronsius in Roman Polanski's The Fearless Vampire Killers and the death of a bad guy in Peter Weir's Witness to the manner in which the doctor meets his end. The great thing about both of these commentaries is not only are they completely pause free, but there is almost no duplication of information, a rare an much appreciated thing for multiple commentary discs.

[Felix]

This is what he has to say about the Del Toro commentary

I did think some of the posters here were very harsh about Del Toro when the commentary was announced. I don't really like his films apart from Cronos, in parts, but both it and Devil's Backbone and Pan's Labyrinth are well made and good films.

I was thinking that if we still had a repertory scene in the UK at least, and this were being released through that route, it might see the blossoming of its reputation in the same way the restoration of L'Atalante did back in the early 90's, and likewise the rediscovery of his Joan. I wonder if the Internet can have the same effect?

With so many films now restored and more easily obtainable, the 2012 Sight and Sound poll could be very interesting.

[MichaelB]

I was thinking that if we still had a repertory scene in the UK at least, and this were being released through that route, it might see the blossoming of its reputation in the same way the restoration of L'Atalante did back in the early 90's, and likewise the rediscovery of his Joan. I wonder if the Internet can have the same effect?

Actually, Vampyr played pretty regularly in rep in the 1990s - I booked several screenings myself. In fact, it was just about the only Dreyer film available for UK theatrical bookings for many years.

[Felix]

Actually, Vampyr played pretty regularly in rep in the 1990s - I booked several screenings myself. In fact, it was just about the only Dreyer film available for UK theatrical bookings for many years.

I can see it being the only film of his available though I don't recall seeing it listed when I used to buy Time Out (even though I could never see the films), and I certainly don't recall it ever playing Scotland, but I did have a few years where I never watched films. I recall what little chance it had of gaining a reputation in the 90's through video being destroyed by the hideous Redemption release and the mispromotion and critical misreading of the film; in the media I saw anyway.

[sir karl]

DVD Times

[jsteffe]

I am not so sure you would actually. Linn, of the great Linn Sondek turntable, demonstrated 30 years ago that we are not, IIRC, very susceptible to increased speed at all, though we are to variations in speed. To that effect Linn installed a separate function in the turntable that equalises and smooths the electric from the mains supply to ensure the speed does not vary (don't get on my case if I have the techno details wrong here, it was a long time ago... Some of my friends used to bypass the fuse box altogether for their HiFi to get the purest sound).

I have wondered whether the same is true visually of PAL speed up but I haven't a scooby on that one, and ears and eyes are different.

EDIT: I am not sure how all this would work, if at all, for someone with perfect pitch...

I suspect there are actually quite a few people who can discern the audio pitch differential from PAL speedup if they're already familiar with a film or the music in it. The first time I became aware of the issue was when I saw Angeloupoulos' Landscape in the Mist on VHS after seeing the film a couple times in the theater. It made a huge impression on me, and I especially loved the score. The New Yorker VHS was apparently an NTSC copy converted from PAL, and I could tell right away that the pitch wasn't right. It also had the shorter running time, of course.

So... has anyone figured out what is the story with the MoC soundtrack for Vampyr? Just curious.

[MichaelB]

I suspect there are actually quite a few people who can discern the audio pitch differential from PAL speedup if they're already familiar with a film or the music in it.

That's certainly true. I don't believe I have perfect pitch (though I've never put this to the test), but I can certainly tell if Don Giovanni (an opera whose opening chord is an emphatic D minor) is out of tune, and found Artificial Eye's VHS version of the Joseph Losey film to be pretty intolerable as a result.

Nostalgically, that soundtrack is also included on the new Second Sight DVD, though thankfully it shares disc space with two pitch-corrected alternatives. And the fact that one can switch soundtracks on the fly serves to emphasise how noticeable the difference is - though of course if you have nothing to compare it to it's clearly far less of a problem.

[Tommaso]

Very happy to have the MoC "Vampyr" in hand now. I didn't watch the film again yet, but watched the Roos documentary and the Gunzburg extra for a start. The Roos docu will not be of much help to those who haven't seen any Dreyer yet, as it basically consists of a run-down of Dreyer's films with comments by the man himself on some aspects of the making of all of them, delivered in his usual very restrained and magisterial manner. But it's interesting to see, for example, that he almost dismisses "Michael" for having a 'wrong look', referring to the set designs (which I personally find rather gorgeous). The piece on Gunzburg is very interesting, though sadly far too brief with its 15 min., as it tries to cover all of his life. I had hoped it would focus more on his early years and the collaboration with Dreyer, but I assume this will all be covered in the audiocommentary and the booklet. The booklet looks absolutely gorgeous, as we have come to expect. I especially like the collection of all the known production stills at the end of it. Also nice to see that the booklet is actually glued (a la "Nosferatu" and "Tabu") and not stapled like the recent Mizoguchi booklets; it simply looks more 'valuable' this way.

[Knappen]

The disc arrived today for me too.

Beautiful booklet and photo from the premiere at the verso of the cover.

[wowser]

My copy also arrived today and, to echo what others have said, the book is fantastic! The best MoC booklet I've so far seen.

[bear]

Echo: Awesome book. I started reading after rewatching the film last night, and couldn't lay it down until I was through the whole thing. Film - production Carl Dreyer was the highlight for me. I'm starting to think the MoC crew could start publishing film books too, with such great taste and designer skills.

Also, the film itself looked really good. While it indeed shows it age, the dreamy atmosphere is carried well. I was only used to watching the old image disk, so this was a revelation. Thank you, MoC!

[Robin Davies]

Just finished playing the del Toro commentary. It was nice to hear I'm not the only person who thinks "Allan Gray" looks a bit like H. P. Lovecraft.

[Darth Lavender]

Just finished playing the del Toro commentary. It was nice to hear I'm not the only person who thinks "Allan Gray" looks a bit like H. P. Lovecraft.

That was literally my most immediate reaction when I started watching the film, many years ago.
At the time, I assumed it was deliberate and was very impressed by what I thought to be Dreyer referencing Lovecraft long before the fellow was 'cool'

[HerrSchreck]

More than likely a happy accident for those who see a connection. De Gunzberg was a financier who made the film possible, and acted in the film by his own wish, not Dreyer's.

Dreyer is referencing hard pragmatism, not Lovecraft. Anything else is a happy accident, once he determined the dude "worked" onscreen.

[tojoed]

I received mine today, and agree with everyone about the booklet. You may have noticed in the DVD credits "Special Thanks to.." section the name "criterionforum.org", which was a lovely touch.
So you can all give yourselves a pat on the back.

[wowser]

Exactly. Watched it again with the Rayns commentary (he's like a more affable version of Kevin from Eggheads) and I'm glad that he shone light on the parts I found baffling. Very good points he makes about the disorientating effect of the camera positioning and geography of the locations.

[Sloper]

I do like Tony Rayns but I thought he seemed ill-prepared and uninspired on this one - just compare his portion of the commentary on Seven Samurai. Del Toro's commentary, surprisingly, really is the best extra on this set, displaying a genuine and infectious enthusiasm for the film, and putting forward quite a convincing reading of Gray as a kind of Jesus-like saviour figure (I seem to remember Schreck noting the prevalence of this motif in Dreyer's films in another thread?) Next to Gertrud, I find this to be Dreyer's least accessible film, but Del Toro opened it up for me quite a lot, and I can't wait to see it again.

Having only watched the Redemption VHS before now, this edition was a real revelation - especially the shots of the vampire book, which when presented as dull intertitles make the film drag terribly, but with Dreyer's breath flickering the candles over them look gorgeous. I know this was covered earlier in the thread, but it's a completely different film this way.

Just a note on Michael - what Dreyer says about it in the Roos documentary is (as far as I can tell) not a criticism, just a comment on the deliberately 'false' style of the film. The 'cluttered' look of Michael just shows that the spare production design for which Dreyer is better known was not a fetish, since he was happy to do something different when the subject matter demanded it. Just saying, 'cause it's my favourite Dreyer film.

[Tritonemusic]

Hello. This is my first post here.

First, let me mention that I know very little about movies in general. The main reason I signed up here is because of my love for Vampyr (I have the Image Entertainment version).

I have limited income and would like to purchase one of the new versions. However, I don't know which one to get. English subtitles are important to me since, even though I took German class in high school, I don't remember a thing.

Eventually, I'd like to have them all. If you could only get one version, which one would it be? Please keep in mind that I am not a movie/film connoisseur.

I realize that there are pros and cons in all versions. I guess I'm just looking for a general consensus on which version would be the most satisfying for a "rookie."

Thanks a lot for your time.

[mfunk9786]

If handsome packaging, a thick booklet (& a book), and a well done English language version are your bag: Criterion.

If a commentary by Guillermo Del Toro and a more appropriately aged-looking transfer are your bag: Masters of Cinema.

I have the Criterion and would never for a second discourage someone from getting it, it's gorgeous.