64 / BD 70 Nosferatu

Discuss releases by Eureka and Masters of Cinema and the films on them.
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RidgeShark
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#76 Post by RidgeShark » Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:02 pm

Before getting into the "meat" of my post, I just want to say that I'm extremely excited about this release and have already preordered my copy, along with Tabu.

Anyways, in watching the MOC trailer, I couldn't help but notice that a few frames were missing from a shot.

As you can see, the 2000 Image edition has a few more frames than the MOC version. This jump cut seems to be present in all editions mastered from the 1995 Bologna restoration. It's a minor thing really, but it annoys me.

In other video editions mastered from the 1995 Bologna restoration, there are missing frames from the scene where Knock looks up from Orlok's letter and then starts laughing. Thankfully, all the frames in this shot looked present in MOC trailer.

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HerrSchreck
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#77 Post by HerrSchreck » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:54 pm

I noticed that too when comparing the Kino (which uses the same photochemical restoration/reels as this new go round which adds the orig score) w the older Image. Thats the point where Knock is giggling in his high chair, then stops laughing, stiffens/scrunches his shoulders and gets back to his reading, right? That shoulder-scrunch is atrophied I believe.

There's another bit of frames missing from that resto-- which is visible in the earlier Shepard edition-- where Hutter comes home with flowers, he opens the front door with the flowers behind his back, says "good morngin" while hanging there.. he kind of does a bit of a bow while lingering there with the most babyish/babying smile on his face; on the Image he goes down then up smoothly in his little bow... in the later Kino it's broken up by some removed frames.

I also wonder how the framing will all work out. The Kino/95 Bologna finally restored the top of Schrecks head as he pops out of the coffin into an upright position... yet cuts off quite a bit off of the bottom of the frame during the scene, for example, in front of Orloks fireplace, after waking up from the initial attack just before going to the meal waiting for him at the breakfast table (maybe it was the scene where Orlok sits him down at that chair.. but I'm pretty sure its the morning after).

I hope the new FWMS transfer gives us the best of both worlds. Unless they're not running any new telecine and are just using the transfer already in pllace and seen on the Kino, and marrying it w the new score?

Maybe Nick can tell us if a new transfer has been done? My guess is it has, unless that last one was done in hi-def.

EDIT: ThIS IS TWO POSTS SQUASHED TOGETHER BY A MOD*** BREAK IS HERE***************************************************

I can now answer my question-- I bumped into an early copy of Kino's release at Kims and even though I'll be grabbing the MoC I couldn't resist, impatient greedy ol me.

And it is absolutely a new transfer, with loads of cleanup done and far more detail. Absolutely beautiful--

That said-- Kino has done a strange thing here: instead of interlacing the film to get it down to the correct projection speed (18fps I believe), they chose to progressively encode it, but add extra frames in every few frames to have it spool off mathematically correctly for the frame rate.

Translation-- seems they chose ghosting over the combing produced by interlacing as the lesser of two evils? Even switching my player to interlaced I could step thru the thing frame by frame without any duplications, and there was no interlaciing/combing to be found.

Odd.. but it did I guess make for smoother curves and detail in the images.

Either way the MoC is going to be stunning no doubt-- this is a heckuva transfer guys. Even those who had one of the prev versions with theBologna resto don't know what's in store. Creaminyerpantsville!

EDIT: Okay I'm bugging out on this new FWMS transfer, and since this applies to all editions, I'll post here in the one dedicated thread for the film.

I'm seeing things I never noticed before in this edition and it's flipping me out.

At the point just prior to Schreck's grabbing hutter's hand to drink his blood off his finger, I noted the beginning of a camera move/dip, before cutting to the frontal shot where Schreck has his finger in his mouth.

At 88.19 seconds, where Orlok's house is shown with its doors open just prior to cutting to the famous shot of his shadow creeping up the steps to come get Schroeder, you see, just prior to the cutaway, a man with a white shirt and tie coming into Orloks doorway from within the house!

I noticed some other stuff-- I recall another hint at a camera move that I wasnt as sure about.

A bit of bad news-- Orloks head is cut off in the pop-up. Since the framing is otherwise steady in relation to the iris edges & rounder corners, I take it this was done in telecine. WHY???
Last edited by HerrSchreck on Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

RidgeShark
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#78 Post by RidgeShark » Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:43 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Thats the point where Knock is giggling in his high chair, then stops laughing, stiffens/scrunches his shoulders and gets back to his reading, right?
Yes - That's the one I'm talking about.
There's another bit of frames missing from that resto-- which is visible in the earlier Shepard edition-- where Hutter comes home with flowers, he opens the front door with the flowers behind his back, says "good morngin" while hanging there.. he kind of does a bit of a bow while lingering there with the most babyish/babying smile on his face; on the Image he goes down then up smoothly in his little bow... in the later Kino it's broken up by some removed frames.
I never noticed that one. It makes me wonder how many generations the Bologna and Shepard prints are removed from the original negative. Another shot I noticed that is missing some frames is a beautiful shot of Hutter riding on horseback, with a hill in the background on the right side of the frame. It is a shot that comes soon after the shipmate saying "If I'm not back in 10 minutes" on the Bologna versions - and its placement is a little later on Shepard's 2000 edition. The Shepard version of this shot is very smooth, and doesn't appear to be missing any frames.
HerrSchreck wrote: A bit of bad news-- Orloks head is cut off in the pop-up. Since the framing is otherwise steady in relation to the iris edges & rounder corners, I take it this was done in telecine. WHY???
This is horrible news. What is arguably the most famous shot in Nosferatu is horribly cropped on the Kino edition? I hope that the Kino and MOC transfers are different in this regard. I've always wanted a home video edition that showed both the top of Orlok's head and the rats at the bottom of the floor.

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HerrSchreck
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#79 Post by HerrSchreck » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:19 pm

RidgeShark wrote:This is horrible news. What is arguably the most famous shot in Nosferatu is horribly cropped on the Kino edition? I hope that the Kino and MOC transfers are different in this regard. .
I hope so too-- who knows? Kino's last disc was the first release to finally restore the top of Orloks head, so who knows what to expect from the MoC? Kino is usually pretty good about cropping, and usually keep the image way out in the aperture marks (what Gary calls "rounded corners"), which I usually enjoy seeing.

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Tommaso
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#80 Post by Tommaso » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:52 am

I hope you're right, of course, but wouldn't that mean that Kino had done their OWN 'production master' (correct me if I get these technical things wrong again) after they were given the master from FWMS? Such efforts from Kino seem somewhat unlikely to me (though apparently MK2 did something like this with their misframed "Vampyr"), so I fear that the chopped head is already on the original restoration master, and would thus also be like this on the MoC. Which would be really stupid.

RidgeShark
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#81 Post by RidgeShark » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:37 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Kino is usually pretty good about cropping, and usually keep the image way out in the aperture marks (what Gary calls "rounded corners"), which I usually enjoy seeing.
I would be extremely happy if I were to come across a "rounded corners" dvd of Nosferatu. The somewhat blurry BFI version is close, being that it is windowboxed - but the image is still a little cropped.

Anyways, here's my attempt at combining footage from the 2002 Kino and 2000 Image DVDs of Orlok rising from the coffin. It combines the best of both worlds - the rats at the bottom of the frame and Orlok's head at the top.

It would be nothing short of perfection if the image was kept out in the aperture marks for this shot.

videozor
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#82 Post by videozor » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:44 am

Nosferatu, as well as Tabu, became UNAVAILABLE for pre-orders today on Amazon.co.uk !?

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MichaelB
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#83 Post by MichaelB » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:46 am

videozor wrote:Nosferatu, as well as Tabu, became UNAVAILABLE for pre-orders today on Amazon.co.uk !?
I wouldn't read too much into that - Amazon printed all manner of bizarreness when my Quay and Å vankmajer sets got delayed by a few days, and apparently this is common practice for them.

In fact, I even ended up posting on the Å vankmajer listing to set the record straight, as people were getting so confused!

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Tommaso
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#84 Post by Tommaso » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:47 am

Play.com says that "Nosferatu" is actually IN STOCK. Really confusing, I hope amazon will not cancel my pre-orders only to put "Nosferatu" and "Tabu" back two days later at a much higher price.

stephan73
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#85 Post by stephan73 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:23 pm

My copy of Nosferatu has been shipped, so it's weird that Amazon hasn't got it in stock!

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MichaelB
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#86 Post by MichaelB » Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:14 am

DVD Outsider review - a total rave.

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Nuno
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#87 Post by Nuno » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:26 am

MichaelB wrote:DVD Outsider review - a total rave.
Wow... MoC really did a good work!

RidgeShark
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#88 Post by RidgeShark » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:11 pm

Nosferatu and Tabu are once again available on Amazon for pre-orders. Their prices have gone up - from £11.90 to £13.98 for Nosferatu - and £10.20 to £11.98 for Tabu.

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Tommaso
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#89 Post by Tommaso » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:43 am

They must have gone up earlier already, I ordered them for both these prices about three weeks ago. But good to see them back, and hope that amazon will deliver them as quick as possible.

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markhax
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#90 Post by markhax » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:58 am

Tommaso wrote:They must have gone up earlier already, I ordered them for both these prices about three weeks ago. But good to see them back, and hope that amazon will deliver them as quick as possible.
Just got an e-mail from Amazon.UK this morning that they have shipped my order.

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Subbuteo
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#91 Post by Subbuteo » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:09 pm

Fuck, me and friends have taken a week of work to see this and Tabu, lets hope it arrives...happy gathering :)

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Rsdio
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#92 Post by Rsdio » Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:38 am

A whole week! How long would you take off for Berlin Alexanderplatz?

DVD Times review is up.

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Tommaso
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#93 Post by Tommaso » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:33 am

The difference in the screen caps between the old and the new version as shown on dvdtimes continues to amaze me. This must be a totally incredible release, although we still don't know whether Schreck has got his head back on the MoC. Thankfully it's listed in my amazon account as 'dispatching soon' now (together with "Tabu" and the first Mizoguchi installment), so I hope I can watch this next weekend and find out.

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MichaelB
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#94 Post by MichaelB » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:35 am

Tommaso wrote:The difference in the screen caps between the old and the new version as shown on dvdtimes continues to amaze me.
You wait till you see it in motion - it's the stability of the image that's really astounding compared with previous releases.

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HerrSchreck
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#95 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:50 am

Do you have it Mike? -- can you report on Orlok's head?

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MichaelB
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#96 Post by MichaelB » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:51 am

HerrSchreck wrote:Do you have it Mike? -- can you report on Orlok's head?
I don't have a final production copy, and I'm not sure where I put the check disc - but if I find it, I'll let you know.

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Sanjuro
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#97 Post by Sanjuro » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:37 pm

Most anticipated screen cap ever.....

:shock:

RidgeShark
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#98 Post by RidgeShark » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:24 pm

Well while we're waiting for a screen cap from the Eureka edition, here's how the scene looks on the Kino -

Image

Found this shot on the imdb message boards.

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nyasa
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#99 Post by nyasa » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:00 am

The spine isn't black! It's screwed up the aesthetics of my MoC shelf.

(Haven't watched it yet. Still working my way through Berlin Alexanderplatz.)

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MichaelB
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#100 Post by MichaelB » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:46 am

nyasa wrote:The spine isn't black! It's screwed up the aesthetics of my MoC shelf.
You can't have bought many titles recently - on my shelf, Salesman is the only 2007 release with a black spine!

As for the frame grab, I can now confirm that the MoC matches the Kino, so there's not much point posting something that effectively looks identical. Sorry!

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