120 / BD 46 Die Nibelungen

[knives]

Also to be fair I believe Nick has said MOC had to start shortening the number of extras because the BBFC fee for extras made it so that it was impossible to make a buck.

[MichaelB]

The cost of doing commentaries has increased significantly since the BBFC started regarding them as "new video works" four or five years ago and charging accordingly. And I suspect the number of UK releases with commentaries has dropped significantly as a direct result.

And when you factor in a five-hour running time, things get more expensive still, even if the commentary was recorded at the commentator's home on his own equipment.

[Tommaso]

Hire HerrSchreck to do one! (I'm not joking.)

I would really love to hear that actually. I'm not sure if he has as smooth a delivery as Kalat, but he's as jacksmart and knowledgeable. Should be entertaining too.

Indeed. If anyone ever considers doing an R2 upgrade on "Menilmontant" or "Sir Arne", Herr Schreck's commentaries should be a mandatory inclusion.

[HerrSchreck]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate that.

I must say that even the thought of doing five-plus hours on a title makes my knees knock. Even something as extraordinary as this masterwork which can be approached from so many different angles of exploration.

Kalat is an extraordinary dude, one of the few people I can think of who can be engaging no matter how long he speaks . . . both cuts of Godzilla . . . both Dr. Mabuse's. . . can talk about Lang over and over again without losing his ability to be compelling.

Tom, speaking of Menil, I just reuploaded links for it (the old ones were dead owing to the file hosting site changing ownership/url's), and will be doing Black Friday and The Devil Is a Woman just following, today.

[denti alligator]

Indeed. If anyone ever considers doing an R2 upgrade on "Menilmontant" or "Sir Arne", Herr Schreck's commentaries should be a mandatory inclusion.

Cool! I didn't know about these! Brings back memories of going to see a rare silent at MoMA with Schreck and he TALKED MY EAR OFF THE WHOLE TIME!

[HerrSchreck]

No, that clanking you hear are rusty old WW2 dog tags dangling off a necklace. Whenever I move around I guess they clank and clink .

Book the studio time! Wish I could haul my 32 track out to Berlin. That would be the only obstacle, the lack of any recording facilities. At least one that we didn't have to pay for. I was already thinking about maldone so Gueule would be sweet

[markhax]

Nick, will the MOC blu-ray be region free? (I live in the U.S. and have a region free DVD player, but not a region free Blu-Ray player).

[peerpee]

I can't say for certainty anymore, because I left MoC in May, but I'm pretty sure it will be Region B. As per METROPOLIS.

[triodelover]

Kino have already announce their BD release slated for early November, IIRC. So it's a fairly safe bet both releases will be region-locked.

[skuhn8]

I can't say for certainty anymore, because I left MoC in May, but I'm pretty sure it will be Region B. As per METROPOLIS.

Sorry to hear this, Peerpee. Hope you'll bring the world greater access to great cinema via another venture (if you haven't already). You helped make world a better place for cinema lovers....and their wallets a little lighter

[peerpee]

Thanks very much skuhn8! (you must have missed the discussion on here. Can't remember where it was now, but everybody's comments were very touching.)

I'm currently enjoying reviewing the Universal Hitchcock Blu-rays for Sight & Sound magazine and posting my rough viewing notes at: http://www.enthusiasm.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope to stay involved with film.

[swo17]

Finalized contents of our booklet for Fritz Lang's DIE NIBELUNGEN, which comes in at 52 pages. – Writing on the film by Lotte Eisner; selected portions of Tom Gunning's writing on the film; interview excerpts with Lang discussing DN; a note on the film by Michael Powell; Geoffrey O'Brien's incredible 2005 poem inspired by the film, "Ground Speech (after Fritz Lang)"; and notes on the tinting of the film in the new restoration. Plus rare and dynamic imagery from the film. Das ist alles.

[Finch]

Siegfried fighting the Dragon in Niebelungen clip. Looks lovely

[Sloper]

Poor Fafnir, he has such sad eyes. I wonder if that was intentional?

I love the moment at 2.28 where Siegfried seems to be engulfed by the flames for a second.

[isakborg]

Beautiful - and, equally important, what appears to be the promised appropriate frame rate.

[triodelover]

Beaver. Worth the wait.

[Tommaso]

This is the HD restoration of the film by Friedrich-Wilhelm-Murnau-Stiftung, with its original frame-rates and in its original aspect-ratio.

Sorry to spoil the fun, but unfortunately the frame-rate of Pt.2 is NOT the original one, unless MoC slowed it down, of course. I mentioned this before: Pt.1 was transferred at the correct 20fps by FWMS, but Pt.2 was sped-up to 22 fps, simply because the conductor of the music was no Klemperer or Celibidache who would have been able to conduct the music at a slower tempo. The old 1993 resto has both parts at the same, correct speed.

[triodelover]

Sorry to spoil the fun...

It's always something.

[Gregor Samsa]

Beaver. Worth the wait.

Nice! Those are some thoroughly impressive caps. Stating the obvious, but this and Passion and successive months is hard to top.

[Gregor Samsa]

Not really any new info, but: DVD Verdict

[manicsounds]

Bluraydefinition on the MoC Die Nibelungen, although they mistakenly credit it as a BFI disc...

[SoundCreateUnit]

I was really excited to import the MoC Blu-ray of "Die Nibelungen" on release date, but then held off after learning that Kino was releasing it here in the U.S. Based on the little information I know about these two distribution companies, it seems many cinephiles tend to greatly prefer MoC's releases to Kino, especially during the DVD-era, but it also seems like Kino has been improving with their Blu-ray releases (all of the Buster Keaton material they've released has been well done).

I've of course read the DVDBeaver review (link here) and looked at the screenshot comparisons between the two versions, and still I cannot easily determine which one to get. On a technical, supplemental, and packaging level, it seems MoC does beat the Kino; slightly higher bitrates, the one-hour documentary is in 1080p instead of 1080i, it has a 56-page booklet, the box art is better, the menus look better, etc. But, the Kino version, as DVDBeaver says, is noticeably "darker with a richer orange tint." Just going off of my subjective opinion from looking at the comparison stills in the DVDBeaver review, I think Kino's darker tinting looks a little better. But, I have no idea which of the two presentations is more accurate to how the movie is supposed to look, or which I would prefer if I saw both versions in motion.

So, has anyone here been crazy enough to buy both versions and do comparisons? Or does this board miraculously have a Fritz Lang scholar who happens to know which presentation is more accurate? Or do you think I am insane for being this inquisitive about the minor differences between the two versions and should just buy whichever version I personally want to?

Thanks in advance for any constructive advice.

[Drucker]

I'll chime in and say, first and foremost, you can safely assume that anything MOC puts out is going to have the most minimal, if any, digital tampering, ever.

The Masters of Cinema edition also comes equipped with a fantastic booklet (with writings by scholar Lotte Eisner). While Kino has done a great job with Buster and certainly were on a winning streak, it seems lately (perhaps starting with Die Nibelungen) some inconsistencies have arisen.

For my own two cents, the Kino edition looks to be "off" though I haven't seen it in motion and don't own it.

[zedz]

All other things being equal, or near-equal, an MoC booklet will always tip things in their favour. Basically, it's like getting an additional disc of first-class extras.

[JonasEB]

Or does this board miraculously have a Fritz Lang scholar who happens to know which presentation is more accurate? Or do you think I am insane for being this inquisitive about the minor differences between the two versions and should just buy whichever version I personally want to?

Yes, this is pretty much exceptionally ridiculous because there is next to nothing about the presentation that makes these two releases extraordinarily different.

The Kino is slightly darker, it's probably Criterion-style contrast boosting (like their edition of M vs. the lighter MOC.) I noticed some compression artifacts but nothing significant. The Kino has original German intertitles too.

It's simple - if you want MOC's booklet, you go with them. If you don't need it, and you're in America, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Kino.