Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

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Jameson281
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1251 Post by Jameson281 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:11 pm

beamish14 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:16 pm
Geronimo came out in a ridiculously bare bones Twilight Time disc, and I'm hoping KL will rectify that. Very possibly Walter Hill's finest work.
(1) It just came out this year, so Twilight Time's rights probably won't expire until 2021 or so; (2) GERONIMO: AN AMERICAN LEGEND is licensed from Sony, and I don't believe Kino has a licensing deal with them at present.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1252 Post by domino harvey » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:50 pm

And now Kino Lorber is releasing another film I never expected to be able to upgrade, Country, which has an excellent Oscar-nommed Jessica Lange perf (she should've won against Sally Field for a not dissimilar role)

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1253 Post by beamish14 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:03 pm

domino harvey wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:50 pm
And now Kino Lorber is releasing another film I never expected to be able to upgrade, Country, which has an excellent Oscar-nommed Jessica Lange perf (she should've won against Sally Field for a not dissimilar role)

A film that royally pissed off Ronald Reagan for its pointed critiques of his administration's handling of the American agricultural sector.

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dwk
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1254 Post by dwk » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:46 pm

Color of Night special edition Blu on August 21st.
Straight to Hell Blu on August 28th

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1255 Post by beamish14 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:53 pm

dwk wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:46 pm
Color of Night special edition Blu on August 21st.
Straight to Hell Blu on August 28th
God, I hope Straight to Hell is just the original theatrical cut with the fantastic extras, including the mesmerizing making-of retrospective
documentary with a fake Courtney Love!

I hope they give Richard Rush the chance to make a piece on Color of Night that's as comprehensive as what he did for The Stunt Man.
It's cinematic junk food, and you sometimes just need it.

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dwk
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1256 Post by dwk » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:57 pm

Sorry, Straight to Hell's specs list it as the director's cut.

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Adam Grikepelis
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1257 Post by Adam Grikepelis » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:08 pm

Though I thought Straight to Hell Returns was more of an alternate version rather than a director’s cut. Guess time will tell. I remember not finding much to like when I first saw the theatrical version, but like all my favourite Alex Cox films, it gets better every time I watch it.

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Re: Kino

#1258 Post by L.A. » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:44 pm

Jack the Giant Killer (1962) reviews @ Beaver and Mondo Digital.

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andyli
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1259 Post by andyli » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:59 pm

Under Capricorn @ DVDBeaver. What is the point of a "brand new 4K restoration" if you are not even going to do something about the color bleeding? An age-old HD transfer would do.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1260 Post by GetHarryPalmer » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:04 pm

It's as good as this film will ever look. A full restoration, taking care of the color bleeding of the three strip technicolor elements would cost high six figures to low seven. And I doubt nobody in their right mind would invest those amounts for a B to C level Hitchcock film. Let's be realistic.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1261 Post by tenia » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:19 am

Then, why bothering scanning (and restoring ?) it at 4K ? Just do it at 2K if you're not going to fix the one thing that absolutely needs to be fixed if you want the movie to look good.
Oh, wait, I know : because you don't want / can't fix it, but still, 4K scan will appeal more than 2K scan.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1262 Post by GetHarryPalmer » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:24 pm

So, either they spend a million dollars and fully restore the film or not release it all, I'm happy studios and labels don't have your high standards, otherwise nothing would be available except for the elite of the elites.

4K - Because, no major studio rights holder would allow anyone to scan their camera negatives at anything lower than 4K, they prefer 8K, but accept 4K. 2K would be less than half the price, so I think most labels would rather saving money than appealing to and impressing a few fans.

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tenia
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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1263 Post by tenia » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:50 am

GetHarryPalmer wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:24 pm
4K - Because, no major studio rights holder would allow anyone to scan their camera negatives at anything lower than 4K, they prefer 8K, but accept 4K. 2K would be less than half the price, so I think most labels would rather saving money than appealing to and impressing a few fans.
I've been told that scanning at 2k or 4k currently cost about the same, it's the resolution for the restoration that changes significantly the price. And 8K is far from being the norm for scanning, its use is usually limited to specific prestige format that justifiy it (like 65mm-shot movies, etc), while 2K scans are still performed including for studio movies (Scalpel, The Thing (from Shout), Children of Corn). I'd had that Gaumont is the biggest French studio and almost all of their scans and restorations currently are performed at 2K. Finally, outside of studios, 2K scans are routinely performed by / for independant labels like Arrow or Vinegar Syndrome.

So what you wrote simply doesn't seem to be the case.

And it has nothing to do with "appealing to and impressing a few fans" but more on that below.
GetHarryPalmer wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:24 pm
So, either they spend a million dollars and fully restore the film or not release it all, I'm happy studios and labels don't have your high standards, otherwise nothing would be available except for the elite of the elites.
It's too bad if you can't understand how one can be truly disappointed by a brand new restoration not fixing the bottom issue of most of the Technicolor movies, the one that makes a brand new 4k restoration looking like a 2 decades old one. If you're happy with this result, I understand that, but you need to understand how the obvious room for improvement will be perceived as such. It's not a question of being elitist, but fairly assessing what is being offered to us. Touting 4K work sends the message of some good $$ having been spent for some kind of prestige restoration, but it only makes the end result even more disappointing.

But that old "if it wasnt for these smaller restorations, we wouldnt get anything" verse is almost as old as the BD format itself and it's high time it rests in peace. You most likely know this is hyperbolic, that we've never been getting as many restorations (or even just stuff on BD) than currently, and that most of them are properly handled, but that when a poorly aligned Technicolor movie is released, it's never met with acclaim. But this doesn't mean that.

So it's not at all a question of "either they spend a million dollars and fully restore the film or not release it all", it's a question of having already spent $100k to do a 4K scan and restoration while they could have save most of it because the most important thing to fix isn't fixed, so the movie still look old, dated and blurry because of that, closer to the decade old restoration of A Matter of Life and Death than a brand new 4K work.

So again, it's only too bad if you can't understand how silly and opportunistic it looks to see a label touting a brand new 4K restoration of a Technicolor movie like this only to end up with a result that isn't far away from much older masters.

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Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1264 Post by movielocke » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:20 pm

Besides the cost issue, this scan was probably done of an inter positive or an inter negative, to fix the color bleeding you actually have to make four scans, one of each of the color separation masters (or three strip negative), if they exist and if they have survived in good condition, and then also the scan of the interpositive or internegative for reference.

So you’ve quadrupled your storage costs right out of the gate. Now you incur a lot of labor costs in combining and matching the separation masters and doing a reel by reel analysis of each of separation masters to see if they were all made correctly and see if any problems are variant from reel to reel, such as maybe the yellow layer in reel three has shrunk 15 % unevenly, but on 5 % in the other reels and the shrinkage locations vary from reel to reel and across the length of the reel. You do this level of analysis before you can set up automated fixes, because you need to know what you want the computer to fix.

It really is damned expensive, and if the color bleeding is an artifact native to the process there is an excellent argument for leaving it as it is. If it was a result of decades of imperfect lab work and original dye transfer prints were free of the issue, then there is a better argument for correcting the error

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1265 Post by Calvin » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:44 pm

Without wading into the debate (I neither have the disc in front of me, nor the technical expertise), at the time of the announcement Kino said that the "BFI handled the 4K scans of the original negatives and [Kino were] doing additional color corrections and DRS."

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1266 Post by GetHarryPalmer » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:12 pm

tenia- I've been told that scanning at 2k or 4k currently cost about the same, it's the resolution for the restoration that changes significantly the price.

--

4K scans cost more than twice as much as 2K scans - Full 4K scan and 4K output costs almost three times as much as 2K scan and output and that's a fact. Now you're told the truth.

Also, Gaumont is not the biggest studio in France, that honor goes to Studio Canal.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1267 Post by tenia » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:51 am

GetHarryPalmer wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:12 pm
4K scans cost more than twice as much as 2K scans - Full 4K scan and 4K output costs almost three times as much as 2K scan and output and that's a fact. Now you're told the truth.
Le Chat qui fume has recently been offered to have some of their restoration projects scanned at 4K instead of 2K with no oncost (and that's a fact ! :wink: ).
It'd go in the direction of my current understanding that while 2K and 4K RESTORATIONS have indeed different costs, 4K scan + 2K resto (like Sautet's Une histoire simple recently) vs 2K scan + 2K resto won't have the kind of price difference you suggest.
But I'll ask formally to some directly related people, to be sure.
GetHarryPalmer wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:12 pm
Also, Gaumont is not the biggest studio in France, that honor goes to Studio Canal.
Studio Canal is the biggest catalogue, I'm not sure they produced even half of what they currently own.
In any case, Gaumont remains one of the biggest studio anyway, which was my point, but if you prefer to argue semantics instead, fine.
movielocke wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:20 pm
It really is damned expensive, and if the color bleeding is an artifact native to the process there is an excellent argument for leaving it as it is. If it was a result of decades of imperfect lab work and original dye transfer prints were free of the issue, then there is a better argument for correcting the error
Again, my original is about why spending so much time and money on having this kind of 4K work done on the movie if it still going to look like a decade old master in the end because the colors are still bleeding. It's a massive hold-back in terms of quality, which to me negates most of the higher rez interest. That's why I'm surprised Kino would choose this more expensive workflow only to end still with a problematic result. They could have simply done that at 2K (but that's not as appealling in a press release...).

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1268 Post by nitin » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:02 am

I don’t understand the issue though, we know what it looks like, it’s not like it’s misleading advertising? As far as being disappointing goes, I understand that, but well plenty of 2k and 4k restorations have been disappointing, for one reason or another.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1269 Post by tenia » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:55 am

I'll try one last time to rephrase my opinion on this : it's not misleading advertising but a 4K restoration stirs high expectations in terms of PQ compared to a simpler 2K one.
Here, considering how limited the end result remains, I'm simply wondering if a simpler less expensive 2K restoration would have suffice.

In a similar fashion, it's good that Kino remastered Portrait of Jennie and Duel at the Sun, but both were remastered in such a superficial way that when Carlotta got the masters for their French releases, they had to make an intensive pass of additionnal cleanup and stabilisation (and color correction for Duel) because of how problematic the remasters remained.

In any case, it's just my own personal disappointment regarding how it looks and what I expected based on the technicalities advertised by Kino, and I don't want to look like I'm losing some sleep about it or whatever. I'm just rephrasing this to make sure it's not a question of me not being properly able to make my point.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1270 Post by movielocke » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:16 pm

tenia wrote:
GetHarryPalmer wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:12 pm
4K scans cost more than twice as much as 2K scans - Full 4K scan and 4K output costs almost three times as much as 2K scan and output and that's a fact. Now you're told the truth.
Le Chat qui fume has recently been offered to have some of their restoration projects scanned at 4K instead of 2K with no oncost (and that's a fact ! :wink: ).
It'd go in the direction of my current understanding that while 2K and 4K RESTORATIONS have indeed different costs, 4K scan + 2K resto (like Sautet's Une histoire simple recently) vs 2K scan + 2K resto won't have the kind of price difference you suggest.
But I'll ask formally to some directly related people, to be sure.
GetHarryPalmer wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:12 pm
Also, Gaumont is not the biggest studio in France, that honor goes to Studio Canal.
Studio Canal is the biggest catalogue, I'm not sure they produced even half of what they currently own.
In any case, Gaumont remains one of the biggest studio anyway, which was my point, but if you prefer to argue semantics instead, fine.
movielocke wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:20 pm
It really is damned expensive, and if the color bleeding is an artifact native to the process there is an excellent argument for leaving it as it is. If it was a result of decades of imperfect lab work and original dye transfer prints were free of the issue, then there is a better argument for correcting the error
Again, my original is about why spending so much time and money on having this kind of 4K work done on the movie if it still going to look like a decade old master in the end because the colors are still bleeding. It's a massive hold-back in terms of quality, which to me negates most of the higher rez interest. That's why I'm surprised Kino would choose this more expensive workflow only to end still with a problematic result. They could have simply done that at 2K (but that's not as appealling in a press release...).
I mean, I only looked on my phone but the new blu ray under question looks excellent on the supplied link, it definitely looks better than early 2000s Hitchcock releases. Which screenshots have the color issues you find so severe as to call the entire methodology of the process used into question?

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1271 Post by tenia » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:50 pm

Subtitles sample cap aside, caps 1, 2 & 5 have heavy color registration issues which, to me, can easily be compared to the older AMOLD HD master which was here quite criticized. 3, 4 & 7 are OK. 6 is borderline to me.
Now again, I don't call into question the entire methodology, only the more expensive 4K resolution used.
Don't get me wrong, it probably is Ok and I certainly wouldn't call that a disaster or whatever, but if you know you're going to hit a PQ wall because you can't fix the color alignment... I don't know, I just wonder why not doing it at 2K instead.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1272 Post by nitin » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:20 pm

It does not look excellent though, I am with tenia on that point, better than the DVD sure but far from excellent.

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1273 Post by dwk » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:37 pm

Cabin Boy Blu on September 18
Special Features:
• New Audio Commentary by star Chris Elliott and director Adam Resnick
• New Interview with star Chris Elliott and director Adam Resnick
• Limited Edition booklet essay by film critic Nick Pinkerton (Blu-ray only)
• Archival cast & crew interviews featuring Chris Elliott, Ritch Brinkley, James Gammon, Brian Doyle-Murray, Brion James, Melora Walters, Russ Tamblyn, production designer Steven Legler and writer/director Adam Resnick
• B-Roll Footage
• Edited outtakes
• Newly commissioned art by Jacob Phillips
• 5 TV spots
• Limited Edition O-Card (Blu-ray only)
• Reversible Art
• Theatrical Trailer

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1274 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:41 pm

Too bad they couldn't license the bit Letterman did at the Oscars where he had all the stars read his line from the movie, "Hey, want to buy a monkey?" Also, I saw the TLC Doc on the special effects for this film more than the film itself growing up

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Re: Kino Lorber Studio Classics Acquisitions

#1275 Post by domino harvey » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:47 pm

Okay, the tag line Kino used is incredible:

Image

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