Facets

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Scharphedin2
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 7:37 am
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#1 Post by Scharphedin2 » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:35 am

With all the other labels that are represented here, I am really surprised not to find a thread specifically dedicated to FACETS. Surely the label has one of the most impressive catalogues of releases anywhere, and while it is clear from reading various reviews and references in this forum and elsewhere that the quality of these releases often leave something (or a lot) to be desired, I think it would be useful with a thread to discuss this label and its releases.

So, those of you who have had experiences with FACETS' releases that you may care to pass on to the rest of us (either good or ill), please do so.

Personally, I used to go to FACETS on occasion, when I lived in Chicago, to watch films, but being a poor student, I never rented or purcased videos or laserdiscs from them (this was in the days before DVD). I also have yet to see my first FACETS DVD, but took the plunge last night and ordered a handful. I will post again in a couple of weeks to talk about these.

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skuhn8
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:46 pm
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#2 Post by skuhn8 » Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:23 am

Being a lover of great film and watching one of their DVDs is a little like watching someone wipe their ass with pages torn from the Bible for a Catholic. Yes, nice catalogue, but with virtually no sense of love for the end product. That being said, their Decalogue set isn't so bad, though.

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HerrSchreck
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

#3 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:14 am

Certain techheaded hatreds expose a certain naivete/recent entry into filmfandom, like having nothing but pure hatred for Kino. In the case of Facets, one appreciates their longstanding devotion to very hardcore shit over a decent amount of time before all the boutique labels with no liabilities of back inventory on vhs or outdated transfers appeared and started sniffing & holding their nose at trailblazers who were putting out this material when they were wee mites getting hiney-rashes.

But really: I understand their (Facets) having tons of stuff left over from the days when hardcore devotees used to buy videotapes of a home collector of 16mm reels projecting against his kitchen wall SPIES. Being stuck with them-- and even still selling them I can understand. But charging up to 35 balloons for them is just simply unacceptable. They should be doing what Alpha video does-- charge six bucks a pop. Another thing I don't like about Facets is they don't identify what they are selling you: they third-party distribute other labels stuff, and do not distinguish these items as NON-Facets releases. This get's precarious especially when you wind up getting stuff from companies like Grapevine (who, especially when it comes to rare early stuff, Facets shares an AWFUL lot in common with) which can be even worse than Alpha, and five times as expensive.... dangerous for the buyer, for example, as they will keep on selling Grapevine's wall-projection type stuff even after it has been superceded by premium releases. That to me is just not cool-- if you're going to sell it, at least mention that it's a Grapevine or an Alpha, and not the CC or Kino restored version that folks may think their getting.

I for one have never bought a single thing from Facets, ever. Maybe it's because I don't live near Chi or the midwest in general, and they're just not on my radar screen. Can anybody tell me of editions (aside from the 35 dollar vhs of Pick's SHATTERED) of highly sought-after films that Facets have the only release of, where it is really worth picking up? I ask this with sincerity, as the possibility exists that I may be missing something fabulous. Another question is: do they ever do their own restorations, etc, or work with known restorers/distributors (ie CC's relationship with Rialto, or Kino's & Eureka's relationship with Murnau Found./Bologna/LImmagine Ritrovata)?

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Scharphedin2
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#4 Post by Scharphedin2 » Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:45 am

HerrSchreck wrote:Can anybody tell me of editions (aside from the 35 dollar vhs of Pick's SHATTERED) of highly sought-after films that Facets have the only release of, where it is really worth picking up? I ask this with sincerity, as the possibility exists that I may be missing something fabulous. Another question is: do they ever do their own restorations, etc, or work with known restorers/distributors (ie CC's relationship with Rialto, or Kino's & Eureka's relationship with Murnau Found./Bologna/LImmagine Ritrovata)?
... this was more or less what I was trying to find out with this thread myself...

Yesterday I was doing the whole routine with headstands and somersaults to find my way around their site. At one point, I had my shopping cart filled to the brim, only to discover -- as you point out -- that Facets has all kinds of other gunk floating around in their store aside from their own releases. And, reaching a point of utter desperation, not being able to make head or tail of anything, I dumped the whole basket out again, like some old lady throwing in the towel in the local grocery store after having spent half an hour debating which discounted brand of tinned tuna fish to take home.

I skipped over to a different e-tailer, and ordered Bataille du Rail, Valerie's Week of Wonders and Pearls From the Deep , thinking that I had settled upon some titles unavailable anywhere else -- actually, I was going to add Valley of the Bees, but thought I would wait for fellow poster Don Lope to post his comments on this particular release. (To my chagrin I discoverd shortly thereafter that Valerie is available in R2 -- so hopefully this will turn out to be Facets masterpiece).

Now, by the light of the early dawn, reason returned, and I got back on Facets' site, and discovered that they do have a section, where you can find the undilluted sap of all their very own efforts to bring important and marginal films to the masses -- http://www.facets.org/asticat?function= ... exclusives

So, any experiences that all you honroable forum members care to share, before a blue-eyed Scandinavian like myself blunder into a massacre of blasted expectations at the hands of these impressarios of outer limit filmdom working under cover of the friendly, windy ambiance of Chi town?

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HerrSchreck
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#5 Post by HerrSchreck » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:56 am

Wow... that was even loftier lingo than me in my worst/serious-literary moments.

(Scharph.. don't take my friendly ribbing personal. You're one of the nicest new dudes/dudettes to join hereabouts. From the dontguess's & the ugetsu's et al your constant & inherent decency seems almost in the realm of sci-fi.)

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Scharphedin2
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#6 Post by Scharphedin2 » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:39 pm

HerrSchreck wrote:Wow... that was even loftier lingo than me in my worst/serious-literary moments.

(Scharph.. don't take my friendly ribbing personal. You're one of the nicest new dudes/dudettes to join hereabouts. From the dontguess's & the ugetsu's et al your constant & inherent decency seems almost in the realm of sci-fi.)
:D Just trying my best and hardest to stay in the spirit of the discourse, even when the wind blows somewhat heavy, and the hail stones are the size of mango fruits...

Seriously, I enjoy your verbal acrobatics Schreck, all the more so because beneath that murky veneer of sputtering gall and brimstone that you have adapted as your forum persona, it is rare that you do not have something really interesting and insightful to say, and obviously you have great knowledge that benefits all the rest of us.

mmacklem
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#7 Post by mmacklem » Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:33 pm

If the original question was about any releases for which the Facets' release is the only one and they are worth picking up, may I recommend the two two-disc Sokurov releases of Spiritual Voices and Confessions. Amazing films and the prints far exceed Facets' normal ineptitude. (I would also recommend The House Is Black personally, but I know that there have been concerns raised on this and other boards about the print quality, although I was fine with it all things considered).

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skuhn8
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#8 Post by skuhn8 » Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:13 pm

Their Valerie is an abomination. Cancel your order if you can. Such a wonderful film and they thoroughly f'cked it up, the bastards. I bought their Three Brothers, watched twenty minutes of it and sold it a the nearest used CD/DVD store for whatever...I didn't care, and that is the only time when I couldn't have cared less what I got for it as it was complete flotsam jet trash spewed from the nether of a passing antiquated DC-10 bent on finding its oblivion in the Mohave. These guys are rancid piss on the face of DVDdom and that's why I hope and pray that they never get a sticky on this forum. To me this exceeds the whole windowboxing CC issue. There's a line of thought that "at least it's out there"--Facets time and again challenges that notion.

GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS FACETS! YOU SUCK ASS!

Sorry. I'm done. Just pisses me off when I waste good money on otherwise good cinema. And, honestly, I am a VERY forgiving consumer. Polite and shit.

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Michael Kerpan
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#9 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:43 pm

I will never EVER buy a product from Facets again -- burned real bad by sub-bootleg quality rubbish one too many times.

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Scharphedin2
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#10 Post by Scharphedin2 » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:04 pm

Skuhn, Michael, thank you for your warnings -- I am really sorry to hear that Facets is as bad as all that.

Skuhn you already mentioned some specific films that you had been unhappy with -- Tre Fratelli was one title I had my eyes on, but will probably hold my horses after your post. Unfortunately, I am not able to cancel my order for Valerie, but I may very well pick up the UK release after all. Like a real dumbo, I neglected to look the title up on Beaver, or I would have know to watch out.

Michael, can you tell us which titles you got "burned" on?

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Ashirg
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#11 Post by Ashirg » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:14 pm

You also need to look at what company initially released the disc since they distribute many releases from other companies. Polart and Irmovies are pure crap most of the time, but blaq out and Arte Video can be ok (if you overlook that they were incorrectly transfered from PAL) and Other Cinema is fine.

solent

#12 Post by solent » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:35 am

I could have put up with VALERIE & PEARLS except for the misplaced subs throughout. I've written about this problem many times in this forum before. Second Run are much better - they put more effort into their produsct - and their discs are also much cheaper than Facets's.

For a good summary of the Facets 'house style' read the Beaver's review of BLACK PETER [Forman, 1963].

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Brian Oblivious
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#13 Post by Brian Oblivious » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:57 pm

Just want to mention that Facets has a partnership with San Francisco microlabel Other Cinema that releases DVDs that, from what I've seen so far (Experiments In Terror, featuring films by Peter Tscherkassky, J. X. Williams, etc., and Anxious Animation, featuring Lewis Klahr, Janie Geiser and Jim Trainor), do not suffer the technical quality issues of other Facets releases.

peerpee
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#14 Post by peerpee » Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:05 am

Facets really need a burning stake up the arse. They're hurting the films they release, and they're hurting folk all over the world who are buying their crappy DVDs. (The two Sokurov discs are great, but they're not Facets productions).

My friend bought some rare films on the Facets DVD label -- films that he was really looking forward to seeing (BLACK PETER was among them), and the discs were *not* cheap.

He asked me if I knew anything about Facets, because the films he received were the worst quality he'd ever encountered -- so bad that he was in total disbelief that such an outift could have their great taste in films but at the same time lack any understanding of standards or quality-control whatsoever.

I post this here, because he made me laugh hard today. He's a graphic designer, and when he gets burned, he does things like this:

Image

a spectator bird
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#15 Post by a spectator bird » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:18 pm

facets is a non-profit organization with a tiny budget for releasing dvds of films that, for the most part, would never be released otherwise. in addition to their dvd label, facets offers film classes, exhibits features that more profit-driven venues in chicago frequently ignore, and maintains a vast archive of rare VHS tapes, allowing renters the opportunity to see films that they would otherwise be unable to. yes, many of facets' releases are lacking in quality, but they do more for cinephilia than burning stakes and asinine visual puns. if they're keeping the rights for "a house is black" from criterion, who desperately want to put out a 3-DVD special edition with a sparkling new transfer, okay. but the level of venom here is a bit ridiculous.

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Steven H
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#16 Post by Steven H » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:34 pm

I wonder how many people have bought a FACETS DVD, struggled through the viewing (probably spoiled by companies that care about such things as picture quality, un-edited versions, sound quality, sensible subtitles, etc) and wrote off the director or film because of the company's shortcomings? The rights are bought, the product is made, viewers are exposed (and dare I say exploited for the price, considering the lack of care with transfers and extras) and I wonder if such poor exposure can do just as much harm as it does good?

A healthier stance on product quality would lead to more sales, which would also mean more film classes and screenings, wouldn't it? Why not take the leap.

a spectator bird
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#17 Post by a spectator bird » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:48 pm

it's a fair question and a constructive suggestion, i agree. i just find "faeces multimediarrhea" kind of embarrassing.

evillights
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#18 Post by evillights » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:25 pm

Whatever, dude. Here's what I find embarrassing: The fact that the only English-subtitled edition I can watch of Abbas Kiarostami's 'Close Up' looks like vomit, with blocked-out subs. This galvanizes my cinephilia... into never watching the disc again.

Here's what else I find embarrassing: The fact that Facets send out a print catalogue to people which contains an "Import DVDs" section in which they sell discs which anyone can order on the Internet for $30, $35 US, in the $79.95-89.95 range. That's called "outright fleecing," or more specifically, "taking advantage of people who are not as Net-savvy as some others." It's disgusting.

I used to believe part of the problem was that Facets would 'hold up the license on a film for years with their shitty edition resultingly being the only one available' -- until I was told by a little bird that they haven't even actually "paid" for "the rights" on a number of their releases. If an enterprising publisher decided to do some digging, they could just disregard Facets's edition, pursue the rights, re-release the disc.

Seriously, they can fuck themselves HARD. No talk of their singular vision-quest is going to make me a fan any time soon. Half of their exceedingly rare films can be found on eMule, and they're hardly in worse quality than the Facets editions. I'll be buying AE's 'Satantango,' thanks.

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Scharphedin2
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#19 Post by Scharphedin2 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:51 pm

And, me too... I remember Facets as a real force for good in the Chicago film community. (edit: This in reference to Backstreetsbackalright's comment)

That is of course not to say that their DVD releases may not be worthy of heavy criticism, although I wish that some of the misgivings above were more substantiated.

My reason for starting the thread was really in the interest of information being provided for people who are more exacting than myself in terms of the levels of quality they will accept in a DVD release, and, secondly, also for people with limited budgets to spend on DVDs to have a chance to draw on other forum members experiences, and thereby make a balanced judgement on whether to purchase a given disc from Facets.

By means of a short summary, the thread so far has revealed the following:

The Sokurov releases are worthwhile (licensed from other label).

Releases licensed from the Outer Limits label are also good.

Skuhn mentioned that the Decalogue release is OK, and in fact I realised later that this is the edition that I own, and when I watched it a couple of years ago, I remember thinking that it looked reasonably faithful to the way these films looked, when I originally saw them in the cinema.

There are conflicting posts as to the level of unwatchability of Valerie and Her Week of Wonders and Pearls of the Deep. Fortunately (or unfortunately for me) I have already ordered these, and will be able to comment in a little while. Same goes for Rene Clement's Bataille de Rail.

Black Peter has received scalding comments from several people.

The same goes for Tre Fratelli.

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Steven H
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#20 Post by Steven H » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:22 pm

Scharphedin2 wrote:That is of course not to say that their DVD releases may not be worthy of heavy criticism, although I wish that some of the misgivings above were more substantiated.
One of the reasons, I believe, for the lack of sources and substantiated claims is that people have been complaining about FACETS' lack of quality for years. For many people, this is old news, and a story we're all familiar with. I can imagine many people aren't interested in spending too much time on beating a dead horse (how many more metaphors can I pile onto this paragraph?). Most are more focused on finding superior product overseas, like evillights, myself, and a large percentage of people who come to this message board.

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sevenarts
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#21 Post by sevenarts » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:26 pm

I don't have any Facets releases except for Godard's Keep Your Right Up, which I finally gave in & bought since it doesn't seem likely anyone else is queuing up to put it out. Skimming through it, the transfer looks OK, but the subs are burned in and downright unreadable at parts when the bottom of the screen is white. Once I watch it I'll update about just how rough it is when viewing from start to finish.

I'm glad Facets is willing to release stuff like this and other films that probably wouldn't be out anywhere else, but really their quality from what I've seen in screencaps and such doesn't look any better than bootlegs, and they are not cheap DVDs by any means. Since it seems like they're picking their transfers up out of garbage cans, they've got the ugliest packaging on the market, and generally little to no extras, I'm not sure what justifies the Criterion-like levels of their pricing. I probably wouldn't complain if the discs were going for $10, and if they were I'd probably pick up more of their catalog just to see some little known films even in less-than-ideal condition. But paying $20-$30 for crap just doesn't cut it.

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HerrSchreck
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#22 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:44 am

a spectator bird wrote:facets is a non-profit organization with a tiny budget for releasing dvds of films that, for the most part, would never be released otherwise. .the level of venom here is a bit ridiculous.
I don't even think people hate them the way they do for at least TRYING to step up and get rare stuff out. It's the 30, 40, 50, SIXTY, S E V E N T Y dollar price range for VHS schlop. And for stuff they're merely third party distributing. Why charge 3 times the retail price the company who actually made the damned thing in the first place? That's called price-gouging & profiteering in the wide-open world. And why don't they ever identify those products which are being third-party-ditributed (i e Grapevine, Tartan, even Kino & HVe)... this way folks will know they're just buying stuff which can be bought anyplace... and for probably at least ten bucks less.

That's bullshit, and totally indefensible.

a spectator bird
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#23 Post by a spectator bird » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:10 am

Why charge 3 times the retail price the company who actually made the damned thing in the first place? That's called price-gouging & profiteering in the wide-open world.
aside for imports, which are indeed priced quite high, everything from a third party is sold at the suggested retail price. you will not find a kino, HVE, or tartan title in their catalog at above SRP. just because other companies choose to sell lower than SRP does not make it "indefensible" for another company to do so.

that said, i kind of regret wading into this because i'm not interested in defending burnt-in subtitles or anything of the sort, so hate away!

evillights
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#24 Post by evillights » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:16 am

sevenarts wrote:I don't have any Facets releases except for Godard's Keep Your Right Up, which I finally gave in & bought since it doesn't seem likely anyone else is queuing up to put it out. Skimming through it, the transfer looks OK, but the subs are burned in and downright unreadable at parts when the bottom of the screen is white. Once I watch it I'll update about just how rough it is when viewing from start to finish.
Yeah, it's a pretty crappy transfer which pretty much looks like a VHS -- in fact is pretty clearly just a port of the VHS. (Interestingly, and thankfully, they've never released 'Ici et ailleurs' or 'Comment ça va?' on DVD -- which they HAD released on VHS.) I guess the one thing the edition has going for it is it's in the correct (1.33) ratio.

My patience has pretty much been spent with regard to Facets -- and to support what someone said above, their lack of identifying the source of the product is heinous -- even though I assumed from the onset that when I ordered my DVD copy of Godard's 'A Married Woman' from them I knew I'd be getting some kind of DVD-R/grey-market edition -- since it's not really for sale anywhere else, and I'm all too familiar with how Facets works -- I was still peeved that this New York Film Annex edition was indeed just that, but that Facets hadn't mentioned a single damned thing about the source on their website's shop. Their Tourneur vs. Kieslowski ad campaign about a year ago was outrageous, too. Total snake oil.

Just so it can be put on the record in this topic, here are some of the discs for sale -- and Facets' respective pricing -- listed in the latest print catalogue, which I received in the mail on Friday:

-'36 Quai des Orfèvres' by Olivier Marchal: $79.95
-'Chronique d'un été' by Jean Rouch and Edgar Morin: $89.95
-'David Holzman's Diary' by Jim McBride (from Second Run): $69.95
-'The French' by William Klein: $89.95
-'Grands soirs et petits matins' by William Klein: $89.95
-'India Song' by Marguerite Duras: $69.95
-'The Princess Yang Kwei-fei' by Kenji Mizoguchi: $89.95
-'Shin Hei-ke monogatari' by Kenji Mizoguchi: $89.95

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HerrSchreck
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#25 Post by HerrSchreck » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:16 am

a spectator bird wrote:[
aside for imports, which are indeed priced quite high...
I buy imported MoC's & AEyes & BFI's regularly in NYC at $28-33 MAX.

Sir (or madame) there is no excuse for charging $55-70 for a VHS.

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