363 Mouchette
- JAP
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 8:17 am
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Re: 363 Mouchette
And I guess everyone is happy with their DVD edition(s) of Une Femme Douce...
-
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Re: 363 Mouchette
I think of Mouchette as the worst of Bresson's best films.
- bottled spider
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:59 am
Re: 363 Mouchette
My theory about the ending is that Bresson noticed during editing that for a few moments the rippling perfectly synchronized with the Monteverdi, and he liked the effect so much he looped it.
- puxzkkx
- Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:33 am
Re: 363 Mouchette
I never saw her suicide as some act of martyrdom, but rather as an act of complete resignation to a fate that was always in the cards for her. Completely selfless, mindless, instinctive - like a sick animal just "giving up". This makes her a pathetic figure but I don't think Bresson is casting judgment upon her "human" flaws here. I think this is reflected throughout the film with the motif of spilled liquids - the coffee bowl breaking on the floor in the shop, the water canteen spilling into the river, Mouchette pouring the milk and tea into bowls or the milk into the baby bottle and spilling both, Mouchette's mother drinking the gin and spilling it etc, etc - as representing Mouchette's will to live slowly seeping out of her. I didn't see her failed attempts as "nerve testing" but rather as acts of completely mindless, emotionless determination.
- dad1153
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:32 am
- Location: New York, NY
Re: 363 Mouchette
Saw "Mouchette" over the weekend. I've wanted to see/own it for years but it was always too pricey online and/or unavailable at my local stores (and not available at my local library). Then I opened my just-purchased copy of Criterion's OOP "Trafic" DVD and the case was empty (no discs! ). So I went back to the store I bought "Trafic" from, got credit, bought a copy of "Mouchette" that had just showed that day and ordered "Trafic" online from the Deep Discount sale. It was fate I tell you.
"Mouchette" is also my first Bresson movie even though I've read a lot about the man and his movies/style since forever (mostly in this forum). I'm a sucker for tear-jerker melodramas or anything that will make me cry. "Mouchette" sounded like it would be right up my alley, yet I found myself unmoved by the torments the lead character goes through even though her one happy moment with the bumper cars did lift me up (even if it still came with the strings attached of being pounded repeteadly like a ragged doll). The more the fake tears streamed from Nadine Nortier's cheeks the more surprised I was that I wasn't shedding tears alongside Mouchette. And yet "Mouchette" is the one movie I've watched recently that has stayed with me the longest. Seeing the Bresson touch in action for the first time left me mesmerized. He pulls a highwire act of making Mouchette's reactions to her many torments (embracing her rapist and protecting him, rejecting the hypocritical gifts from townsfolks who ignored her mother while alive, turning kindness back on its face, etc.) both symbolic but also an unsentimental portrayal of someone that has given up on life. We pity the poor girl, but it's a "Viridiana"-type portrayal of unappealing aspects of poor people (ungrateful selfishness, though in Mouchette's case the girl hasn't known anything else growing up) most movies don't go near. Mouchette is so pathetic her classmates don't even waste animosity being mean to her (except for the boys that expose themselves) like her teacher, father and every grown-up in her life (including her dying mother in her final moments) does. Even when she throws dirt at the other girls Mouchette's classmates treat her as a fly not worth the physical action of swatting away. The lack of comic relief moments traps the audience in the gloom and perpetual sorrow that surrounds Mouchette at all times, the same way Oshima trapped the audience of "In the Realm of the Senses" in the erotic haze that consumes the movie's doomed lovers. Like the Godard-edited trailer states, 'Catholic and Sadistic' is about the most perfect way to describe "Mouchette" despite a 'day in the life' narrative (I'm surprised most people don't mention that two thirds of the movie take place on a single night-into-day time frame) that strains credulity but never at the expense of contextual symbolism. The "suicide" totally shocked me because I didn't know it was coming, yet it felt like a natural ending to a character that wasn't meant for this world (or any other, celestial or etheral) either in real-life or movies. I honestly thought Bresson ran out of footage and just kept the final seconds of the water on a loop to stretch the shot to match the music. Knowing about his religious influences and reading the opinions here though, I don't know anymore.
One more rewatch of "Mouchette," then the Tony Rayns commentary and then it's off to the library to seek out more of Bresson's work on DVD. Of the couple of dozen Criterions I bought over the past couple of months this has turned out to be the best blind buy of the bunch.
"Mouchette" is also my first Bresson movie even though I've read a lot about the man and his movies/style since forever (mostly in this forum). I'm a sucker for tear-jerker melodramas or anything that will make me cry. "Mouchette" sounded like it would be right up my alley, yet I found myself unmoved by the torments the lead character goes through even though her one happy moment with the bumper cars did lift me up (even if it still came with the strings attached of being pounded repeteadly like a ragged doll). The more the fake tears streamed from Nadine Nortier's cheeks the more surprised I was that I wasn't shedding tears alongside Mouchette. And yet "Mouchette" is the one movie I've watched recently that has stayed with me the longest. Seeing the Bresson touch in action for the first time left me mesmerized. He pulls a highwire act of making Mouchette's reactions to her many torments (embracing her rapist and protecting him, rejecting the hypocritical gifts from townsfolks who ignored her mother while alive, turning kindness back on its face, etc.) both symbolic but also an unsentimental portrayal of someone that has given up on life. We pity the poor girl, but it's a "Viridiana"-type portrayal of unappealing aspects of poor people (ungrateful selfishness, though in Mouchette's case the girl hasn't known anything else growing up) most movies don't go near. Mouchette is so pathetic her classmates don't even waste animosity being mean to her (except for the boys that expose themselves) like her teacher, father and every grown-up in her life (including her dying mother in her final moments) does. Even when she throws dirt at the other girls Mouchette's classmates treat her as a fly not worth the physical action of swatting away. The lack of comic relief moments traps the audience in the gloom and perpetual sorrow that surrounds Mouchette at all times, the same way Oshima trapped the audience of "In the Realm of the Senses" in the erotic haze that consumes the movie's doomed lovers. Like the Godard-edited trailer states, 'Catholic and Sadistic' is about the most perfect way to describe "Mouchette" despite a 'day in the life' narrative (I'm surprised most people don't mention that two thirds of the movie take place on a single night-into-day time frame) that strains credulity but never at the expense of contextual symbolism. The "suicide" totally shocked me because I didn't know it was coming, yet it felt like a natural ending to a character that wasn't meant for this world (or any other, celestial or etheral) either in real-life or movies. I honestly thought Bresson ran out of footage and just kept the final seconds of the water on a loop to stretch the shot to match the music. Knowing about his religious influences and reading the opinions here though, I don't know anymore.
One more rewatch of "Mouchette," then the Tony Rayns commentary and then it's off to the library to seek out more of Bresson's work on DVD. Of the couple of dozen Criterions I bought over the past couple of months this has turned out to be the best blind buy of the bunch.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
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Re: 363 Mouchette
Quick question about the documentary Au Hasard, Bresson - the version on the Artificial Eye Blu-ray includes a German voiceover translation that drowns out much of the original French soundtrack. Is this also true of the version on the Criterion DVD?
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
- Location: Worthing
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Re: 363 Mouchette
Thank you - that certainly explains why none of the reviews of the Criterion bring up the issue!
It may be because I understand French much better than German, but I found it incredibly distracting.
It may be because I understand French much better than German, but I found it incredibly distracting.
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:40 pm
Re: 363 Mouchette
It's strange that they would do that when a non-dubbed version is (probably) easily obtainable.
- TMDaines
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Stretford, Manchester
Re: 363 Mouchette
I just don't think they show the same level of attention to detail that other labels and that AE also once did, sadly.
- bunuelian
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:49 am
- Location: San Diego
Re: 363 Mouchette
How certain is it that the ending is a suicide, or at least an attempted one, and not just a game that leads to her being miraculously taken to Faerie by the local garden elves (that is, by movie magic)?
Putting aside that suicide is on the wrong end of the sin gradient, one can see the "disappearing body" as a sign of Mouchette's transcendence, with a direct echo in Jeanne serving as Exhibit A (though I think that disappearance is a fraud). She's wrapped herself in the shroud meant for her mother, so of course she's off to die. We aren't shown the moment she hits the water because it's a sacred, unseeable moment, and Bresson is sparing us from being turned into pillars of salt (thanks, Bob). These are all clear indicators that a young, healthy Mouchette not only intends her roll down a gentle slope, over a substantial, thorny bush, and into shallow water to end her life, but she succeeds so spectacularly that she vanishes - a miracle!
I don't find her method of suicide, let alone its presumed success, remotely convincing.
I struggle to believe that Bresson would opt for such a dull resolution, with such thunking symbols, and I want to find something in the closing loop that says, "This isn't what you think it was. So what do you think it was?" I'm inclined to think that Bresson's aim is to make the audience complicit in this casting away of the character, at least to the degree of the viewer's lack of compassion. The character lives on, insofar as we can watch the film again (loop loop), so no one has "died" unless we opt to see it that way. Rather, there's an idea and a feeling that the viewer has as the girl rolls toward the water: what is that feeling? Is it hope that she succeeds in the fun of hitting the water? Is it the dread that she'll die? Is it a hope that the film will end so we can get on with the evening? How do we interpret the splash and vanishing act? As a death? A miracle? A dreadful end to a teenager's anguished game? If audience involvement was his intent here, and here I'm speculating that he was already playing with these ideas at this stage of his career, I don't think he succeeded, at least not to the degree he did in Devil and L'Argent.
Putting aside that suicide is on the wrong end of the sin gradient, one can see the "disappearing body" as a sign of Mouchette's transcendence, with a direct echo in Jeanne serving as Exhibit A (though I think that disappearance is a fraud). She's wrapped herself in the shroud meant for her mother, so of course she's off to die. We aren't shown the moment she hits the water because it's a sacred, unseeable moment, and Bresson is sparing us from being turned into pillars of salt (thanks, Bob). These are all clear indicators that a young, healthy Mouchette not only intends her roll down a gentle slope, over a substantial, thorny bush, and into shallow water to end her life, but she succeeds so spectacularly that she vanishes - a miracle!
I don't find her method of suicide, let alone its presumed success, remotely convincing.
I struggle to believe that Bresson would opt for such a dull resolution, with such thunking symbols, and I want to find something in the closing loop that says, "This isn't what you think it was. So what do you think it was?" I'm inclined to think that Bresson's aim is to make the audience complicit in this casting away of the character, at least to the degree of the viewer's lack of compassion. The character lives on, insofar as we can watch the film again (loop loop), so no one has "died" unless we opt to see it that way. Rather, there's an idea and a feeling that the viewer has as the girl rolls toward the water: what is that feeling? Is it hope that she succeeds in the fun of hitting the water? Is it the dread that she'll die? Is it a hope that the film will end so we can get on with the evening? How do we interpret the splash and vanishing act? As a death? A miracle? A dreadful end to a teenager's anguished game? If audience involvement was his intent here, and here I'm speculating that he was already playing with these ideas at this stage of his career, I don't think he succeeded, at least not to the degree he did in Devil and L'Argent.
- Michael Kerpan
- Spelling Bee Champeen
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Re: 363 Mouchette
Mouchette is very interesting to me -- as another Bunuelian. It strikes me as being very like a Bunuel film in some ways, but without Bunuel's humor (and ultimate kind-heartedness to his characters).
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: 363 Mouchette
New HD elements added to this product's page, looks like an upgrade is coming. Glad I never picked up the barebones Artificial Eye blu
- L.A.
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 7:33 am
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Re: 363 Mouchette
Didn’t the AE Blu had a documentary?domino harvey wrote: ↑Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:25 pmNew HD elements added to this product's page, looks like an upgrade is coming. Glad I never picked up the barebones Artificial Eye blu
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: 363 Mouchette
Yes, according to DVD Compare the sole extra on the AE blu was
Which is also on the Criterion DVD.
.Zum Beispiel Bresson" ["Au hasard Bresson" / "For Instance Bresson"] 1967 documentary by Theodor Kotulla (29:55)
Which is also on the Criterion DVD.
Last edited by dwk on Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: 363 Mouchette
I guess in my memory it was barebones because it had less than the Criterion and nothing new, but you’re quite right, that’s not an accurate term
- L.A.
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 7:33 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
Re: 363 Mouchette
Also, I think it was dubbed in German on the UK disc.
- MichaelB
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:20 pm
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Re: 363 Mouchette
It was, and a horrendous viewing experience it was too. Every time Bresson popped up, you’d hear the first half-sentence and then he’d be drowned out by a loud German voiceover. Given that the French version is clearly still available, it was a baffling decision.L.A. wrote:Also, I think it was dubbed in German on the UK disc.
Last edited by MichaelB on Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
- TMDaines
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Stretford, Manchester
Re: 363 Mouchette
Watched A Man Escaped for the first time last week and loved it. Delighted that Mouchette will be available in HD again.
- FrauBlucher
- Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
- Location: Greenwich Village
Re: 363 Mouchette
On the listing the bluray is from a 4k restoration and the DVD restored hi def digital transfer. Is that common and does it matter?
- CSM126
- Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:22 am
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Re: 363 Mouchette
Likely they’re keeping the same old DVD and only issuing the new transfer on blu. Not entirely unusual for Criterion.
- FrauBlucher
- Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
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