989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
Message
Author
User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#26 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sun May 19, 2019 12:27 pm

I think Schrader had an unfortunate (but mostly temporary) impact on Richie's view of Ozu (which was, alas, "immortalized" in his book on Ozu).

My most important Ozu resources were the books of Bordwell and Hasumi (alas, no English version -- just Japanese and French).

User avatar
yoloswegmaster
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#27 Post by yoloswegmaster » Sun May 19, 2019 12:39 pm

Does anyone know if the version on the Criterion Channel is from the 4K restoration or from an older source?

User avatar
FrauBlucher
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
Location: Greenwich Village

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#28 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:24 pm

Beaver...even Gary's captures suggest how good this is going to look

User avatar
therewillbeblus
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#29 Post by therewillbeblus » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:42 pm

This was absolutely fantastic and a strong candidate for my favorite Ozu. While I’m admittedly not his biggest fan, I tend to prefer Ozu at his more playful, and thought this was an excellent exercise middling between his domestic dramas and his humorous side (the most extreme example being Good Morning). While this film is not in the latter’s wheelhouse (its humor is in line with screwball elements as people have mentioned, but also more colorful examples of observational social commentary), it does strike a balance that reveals Ozu’s patient, meditative, and perceptive strengths even compared to his other work. The film contains many accentuated traits of Ozu’s canon, with more intensely audacious characters making brash comments against cultural norms like marriage outside the family system while continuing to observe the etiquette of such norms with the system. Ozu is more flashy in his juxtaposition here, and the manipulation through deceit for the sake of preserving norms and limiting honest communication is a biting commentary that’s both humorous and sad.

Many scenes exist that contain both emotions together, such as a moment where an older wife asks her friend on the phone, “who else should I say is sick?” trying to repeat the same plan after a foiled plot to lie to her husband falls through. This act is quite hilarious after the elaborate setup, but the subsequent look of fear from the younger woman eavesdropping as she asks, “who’s sick?” with pained worry and deep pathos is one of many seamless transitions across contrasting vibes that works so well. A similar scene involves the husband running into an old war buddy and dining with him. It’s a funny scene for the idiosyncratic tics in Chishū Ryū’s performance (a smaller role than usual but absolutely excellent) that slowly descends into somber singing that brings back painful nostalgia and uproots the comfort of complacency in social constructions the husband has grown to bar himself from that unease, if only for a moment. One only needs to get a brief glimpse of each man’s face to feel the weight of the transition, a strength in the form not many filmmakers possess.

I appreciated seeing events from multiple perspectives with a less distinct angle as vantage point, creating a very full milieu in forming eclectic social contexts that draw differing shades of the same themes, as if Ozu decided to make a film like the Nashvilles to come, albeit on a smaller scale and with more narrative grounding. Despite focusing strongly on the drama this is a very fun and funny film, with little anecdotal scenes such as the banter of the three wives at a baseball game spying on a husband absolutely sublime. There is also an innocence and optimism present in both the young woman and the older husband, undoing pigeonholing of generational mores present in some of Ozu’s other works and lending itself towards universal positivity in intent, moral virtue, and humanism. As usual, Ozu takes his time and space in allowing us, and his characters, to process each of these emotional responses that arise. It’s a quick pace for Ozu, but no element feels shortchanged for the sake of the action.

Ozu’s form is curiously also flourishing here in new ways, with some interesting push-in and out, mini-tracking shots spliced into the steady unmoving camera we are accustomed to getting from the auteur. These slight movements clearly signify something, at times an introspective venture into the individual’s experience, as they often occur during a transition from one character to another, catapulting a new perspective to the expansive milieu, which is less a single story and more of a composite of interacting systems, large and small. When the camera pulls out, we often feel displaced and alone, but when it draws us in we become invited in to the character in the frame. However, sometimes these movements occur over unoccupied space in the main couple’s home. Towards the end we get a pan-out after the wife lies in bed alone, and then we actually go back to her! The emptiness of the space could signal loneliness and alienation, even meaninglessness, but I believe it serves to highlight the space of possibilities and opportunities ignored in the physical and emotional space that serves as the place for physical co-existence and spiritual connectivity. That the subsequent scene is the ‘screwball’ one others have mentioned where the couple does finally take advantage of these opportunities and move around together in the space reveals this accentuated space as both magical and real, a tangible and metaphorical area for unions to form (just as they disintegrated there) depending on the energy each brings to the table. The shots of the dark room empty of energy become light and populated with lively movement, as does the energy between the couple.

Overall I found this far more engaging than most of his body of work in part because of the range of moods Ozu delivers, weaving their way through the narrative without feeling forced or jarring. The natural collage of experience begets a true picture of life only possible in the movies where we are given the opportunity to not just explore but sit with the real flexibility in emotion and relativist ethical lines that populate most of our actual experiences. By offering a variety of viewpoints Ozu can achieve a comprehensive summary of socialization across generational, socioeconomic, and gender lines that allows for more diverse revelations on the spectrum of comedy to drama. While this is, I think, his most existentially rich film, it's also a surprisingly light and comfortable palette, not afraid to hit strikingly real areas of intrapersonal crises attempting to forge harmony with designated roles, as well as interpersonal and systemic cultural dynamics, but in a way that goes down smooth because despite inherent struggles and some cynical lenses presented, the film ultimately exposes a present-focused, mindful celebration of life, in all of its complex and simple offerings, and reveals the simple to be a lot more flavorful than expected. What a grateful film about the difficult yet beautiful and rewarding process of finding, accepting, and holding onto gratitude.

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#30 Post by Michael Kerpan » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:07 pm

Thanks to the B&N sale, I now have the beautifully spruced up Blu-Ray of Green Tea. I really am surprised by how much better this new restoration looks -- I never suspected it could look this much better.

Even looking so comparatively lovely, this will never be one of my most favorite Ozu films -- but even as only a medium favorite it is pretty delightful from start to finish. A lot of interesting visual touches (rather reminiscent of his silent work) and very funny. And great performances.

Still need to check out What Did the Lady Forget -- not sure how much restoration (if any) this has undergone. Will report back. ;-)

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#31 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:55 pm

What Did the Lady Forget looks decent -- but doesn't seem to have undergone any sort of major restoration. As a film, I continue to enjoy this even more than Green Tea, probably due to the fact that I love the cast even more. This is one of our few chances to see Japan's (often bespectacled) very first star actress at work. Sumiko Kurishima is excellent here as the upper-class wife (and a great straight woman for her husband and niece). The Western (lots of Hawaiian slide guitar) score is also fun. It's great to have these 2 closely related films available together on 1 BRD. ;-)

User avatar
Lowry_Sam
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:35 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#32 Post by Lowry_Sam » Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:35 pm

FrauBlucher wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:24 pm
Beaver...even Gary's captures suggest how good this is going to look
Not to mention the subtitle comparison, which I wish would get more coverage in reviews:

"My hand smells of pickles"
"Smell the paste" (reminds me of This Is Spinal Tap)
"I smell of miso"

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#33 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:31 pm

Subtitle comparison -- I need to look at the actual Japanese dialog... ;-)

Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#34 Post by Orlac » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:51 am

Is the transfer of WHAT DID THE LADY FORGET a genuine HD transfer or an upscale of the SD transfer on the BFI DVD?

User avatar
knives
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#35 Post by knives » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:36 pm

What a lovely film. It really does feel like Ozu using his ‘30s interests to develop his ‘50s style. There’s a lot here different aesthetically from the surrounding films in a way that gives it a unique spark which stands out.

FilmSnob
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:36 pm

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#36 Post by FilmSnob » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:13 am

I too enjoy What Did the Lady Forget? more because of the cast, especially Michiko Kuwano. And it's a very funny film.

Flavor of Green Tea Over Rice I've only seen once, and found it underwhelming for Ozu, except for the titular sequence at the end.

User avatar
Matt
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm

989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#37 Post by Matt » Fri Mar 15, 2024 6:10 pm

Some scattered thoughts (all I am capable of anymore):

This is an interesting point in Ozu’s gradual transition from focusing on poorer families in the years immediately preceding and following the war to wealthier families in the end years of the American occupation and after. It mirrors the rising economic security of the country and its people but also offers richer opportunities for satire and depictions of the friction between tradition and modernity.

For example, the people in this film have nothing but leisure time: baseball games, trips to spas, pachinko, visits to friends’ houses, Kabuki theatre, bicycle races. There are brief scenes in the husband’s workplace and his aborted business trip, as well as Aya’s office (what does she do?), but that’s the only gesture towards work here.

I think David Bordwell (in his video appreciation on the disc) sees more satire in the film than I do, but there is some criticism of the affected snobbery of the wife who is dissatisfied with the, let’s say “earthiness” of the husband. It’s a bit reminiscent of Craig’s Wife and Harriet Craig, but not quite as savage in its criticism as those films.

This, like The Munekata Sisters a few years earlier, is quite a bit talkier than the contemporaneous Late Spring, involves more characters, and still includes a marriage plot (but it is not quite as prominent as in those films and Early Summer. Early Summer has so many characters (multiple generations of a family plus friends and acquaintances) that it’s a little loose and sprawling. Practically an Altman film. Green Tea over Rice is more contained in that it focuses on one married couple but also includes friends of each and the younger couple (which would almost feel like an unnecessary appendage if they weren’t so adorable together).

I’m doing an Ozu rewatch and mixing in the Kinuyo Tanaka films from the same years as appropriate. Tanaka’s The Moon Has Risen (1955) has a script co-written by Ozu where the (multiple) marriage plot is the entire film and is told from the point of view of the youngest daughter. It’s very nearly an adaptation of Pride and Prejudice with its more rural setting, multiple “will they won’t they” romances, and contrivances to bring possible couples together.

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#38 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sat Mar 16, 2024 9:57 am

Matt -- Have you seen What Did the Lady Forget? Green Tea uses a LOT of elements from this, mixed with ones from an abandoned (due to censors -- who found it not "militant" enough) war-time film (which was also called Ochazuke no Aji). WDTLF featured (probably) the most affluent millieu of any surviving Ozu film. As to Green Tea, I have grown to like it more and more over the course of the years (despite finding it a bit "flat" at first. A bit of meta -- the actor who portrayed the male protagonist specialized in playing hot-headed characters (and in one early film anticipated Marlon Brando's mumbling), so having him play a preternaturally calm character may have been a bit of a prank by Ozu.

User avatar
FrauBlucher
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:28 pm
Location: Greenwich Village

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#39 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:18 am

I find it interesting that this is the film before Tokyo Story, focusing on protagonist couples, first, the couple that have seemed to meet a crossroads in their marriage and then an elderly couple, and maybe the same couple, who are at the end and seem to be alone. Was this an intentional theme from Ozu to do these back to back?

Both films have the ideas that Matt described above
It mirrors the rising economic security of the country and its people but also offers richer opportunities for satire and depictions of the friction between tradition and modernity.
with the focus still being on family and friends.

These are two of my favorite from this master. And maybe because of the connection I'm perceiving

User avatar
Matt
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#40 Post by Matt » Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:17 pm

Michael Kerpan wrote:Matt -- Have you seen What Did the Lady Forget?
I had seen it before, but I watched it again last night for comparison with Green Tea. I enjoyed the sweet romance between the niece and the professor’s assistant. And I always love Ozu’s scenes of “girl talk,” women gossiping a little but mostly bantering with each other, giggling and calling each other “baka.”

I think there’s less emotional nuance in this film to appreciate, but it is meant as a lighter comedy. Other than the innocent deception of a spouse, I don’t really see much of the “unmistakable influence of Ernst Lubitsch” here as the Criterion blurb insists. But I suppose anyone making a comedy of marriage owes some debt to Lubitsch.

Leo McCarey always seems like a greater influence on Ozu, but it’s impossible to play the game of guessing what Ozu had seen, when, and how much he absorbed from it. I would say Lady bears a strong trace of The Awful Truth, but they’re from the same year.

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#41 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sat Mar 16, 2024 5:49 pm

Hmm. I have always found Lubitsch to be more of a source of inspiration to Ozu than McCarey was. I do believe Ozu explicitly named Lubitsch as a major influence. Ozu shares with Lubitsch a lack of moral judgmentalism -- whereas McCarey's work can show a LOT of this. The most McCarey-esque Ozu film is probably Toda Family (namely Make Way for Tomorrow), which is shockingly judgmental (a reason it is near the bottom of my Ozu list). Tokyo Story, on the other hand, which has often been linked to MWFT is more a counter to that film. (Interestingly, this was a western film Ozu himself said he never saw, though his scriptwriters had).

I believe one can find out some of Ozu's film watching history from his Notebooks -- which have been translated into French but not English.

WDTLF and Green Tea share the status of having Ozu's two sexiest scenes (with a midnight rendezvous between husband and wife in each).

User avatar
Matt
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#42 Post by Matt » Sat Mar 16, 2024 10:07 pm

You are quite right in that. I was thinking of McCarey’s approach to the “battle of the sexes” in his romantic comedies and his ability to shift easily between comedy and melodrama, often in the same film. Maybe for me, Lubitsch’s influence on Ozu is not apparent as strict imitation as it is in a similar overall approach to situation and character. The sort of gentle amusement Lubitsch takes in the foibles of his characters and his, as you mention, lack of moral judgment.

I would really like to read Ozu’s diaries or more strictly biographical material or interviews. I appreciate all the careful attention to style and content his work has received, but at this stage of my appreciation of Ozu I would rather learn more about his real world influences and artistic milieu than strict formalism or close readings.

User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

Re: 989 The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice

#43 Post by Michael Kerpan » Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:29 pm

Matt -- I suspect you might find Ryan Cook's translation of Hasumi's book on Ozu appealing. I previously read this in French, and even in that fashion I found it fascinating. Just started it in English and finding it exhilarating. Hasumi, however, pretty much eschews "biography". His focus on seeing clearly just what Ozu is doing. Alas, so far as I can tell there are no English language books that offer a reliable analysis of the things you are looking for. One has to garner info scattered here and there and put it together yourself. Some of what one has to do is watch (probably not findable with subs) films by Ozu's major contemporaries in making the same sorts of films. It is rather frustrating. Even after 20+ years of effort I know there are HUGE gaps in what I know.

Post Reply