983 War and Peace

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
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MichaelB
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#101 Post by MichaelB » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:24 pm

gordonovitch wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:37 am

Also I'm curious if the Janus print's runtime, listed as 433 minutes, is really 31 minutes longer than Ruscico's (purportedly 403), although I'm sure there are many possible reasons to account for this discrepancy.
It might be something as simple as a typo.

(It's not a PAL speedup issue - a 403-minute PAL release would only be 419 mins at theatrical/Blu-ray speed.)

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domino harvey
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#102 Post by domino harvey » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:54 pm

gordonovitch wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:37 am
domino harvey wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:05 pm
FYI the screencap I posted above is from the current resto that Criterion will be using, if that helps any
Where did you find this screen cap? It's not among the nine images offered for download on the Janus site (available under the "Book Now" sign). My point, if I really have one, is that the screen caps do look awfully good, and it seems that the resolution is much tighter than what we saw on the Ruscico, but as to the color itself, I think it wouldn't be hard for Janus to pick and choose scenes where the color had been vivid on the earlier restoration (whereas it had looked degraded or unstable in other scenes). The trailer, too, looks glorious, but in the snippet featuring Anna Pavlova's party at the beginning the film, I thought I could see some of that color fluctuation as Pierre moved around the room.

Also I'm curious if the Janus print's runtime, listed as 433 minutes, is really 31 minutes longer than Ruscico's (purportedly 403), although I'm sure there are many possible reasons to account for this discrepancy.
I made it from an HD digital copy of the films that's circulating. I don't remember running times exactly since I've deleted it in anticipation of owning Criterion's Blu-ray, but I believe the four parts ran something like (all approx) 140 mins / 80 / 85 / 95, which is 400. I'm definitely not 30 minutes off in these estimates, so MichaelB may be right that someone just added a 3 instead of a zero, as 403 sounds about dead on

GoodOldNeon
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#103 Post by GoodOldNeon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:06 pm

Seeing War and Peace in 70mm has been a bucket list item of mine for years, and one I will finally be able to cross off in a few months, albeit in a shorter 366 minute version. It will be interesting to see how the new restoration compares.

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FrauBlucher
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Forthcoming: War and Peace

#104 Post by FrauBlucher » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:05 pm

Swoon...Janus Poster
Image

phoenix474
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#105 Post by phoenix474 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:40 pm

That is incredibly beautiful, probably the best poster they’ve ever done. I really hope they announce it soon cause I can’t wait to get my hands on it

gordonovitch
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#106 Post by gordonovitch » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:06 pm

Was the press book always linked on the Janus' War and Peace page? In any event, I took a look at it this AM and found it a very good and informative read. It confirmed what I've been assuming, that the new restoration made use of the same elements, mostly or all 35mm, rounded up for the 2000 restoration, and that the 70mm negs have been lost. There is a good amount of detailed info, much of it new to me, on the film's rocky production, Bondarchuk's dictatorial directing style and so on. The press book certainly doesn't clear up the restoration's running time: it states the total as 421 min., yet when one adds up the times of each of the four parts, also listed, it comes to 422 min. Within the text on the same page it mentions the original cut shown in the USSR as being 401 min. (Ruscico's box listing of the parts' running times adds up to 403 min., close enough) Still, no mention is made of newly found footage, so I'm thinking what we'll have is the same film as Ruscico released. There are even more screen caps in the press book and they all look wonderful with tight resolution...

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swo17
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#107 Post by swo17 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:12 pm

gordonovitch wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:06 pm
The press book certainly doesn't clear up the restoration's running time: it states the total as 421 min., yet when one adds up the times of each of the four parts, also listed, it comes to 422 min.
That's not inconsistent, just a rounding difference

greggster59
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#108 Post by greggster59 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:45 am

The NY Times mentions a forthcoming Criterion release of the restoration:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/15/movi ... ctionfront

Brianruns10
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#109 Post by Brianruns10 » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:38 am

gordonovitch wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:06 pm
Was the press book always linked on the Janus' War and Peace page? In any event, I took a look at it this AM and found it a very good and informative read. It confirmed what I've been assuming, that the new restoration made use of the same elements, mostly or all 35mm, rounded up for the 2000 restoration, and that the 70mm negs have been lost. There is a good amount of detailed info, much of it new to me, on the film's rocky production, Bondarchuk's dictatorial directing style and so on. The press book certainly doesn't clear up the restoration's running time: it states the total as 421 min., yet when one adds up the times of each of the four parts, also listed, it comes to 422 min. Within the text on the same page it mentions the original cut shown in the USSR as being 401 min. (Ruscico's box listing of the parts' running times adds up to 403 min., close enough) Still, no mention is made of newly found footage, so I'm thinking what we'll have is the same film as Ruscico released. There are even more screen caps in the press book and they all look wonderful with tight resolution...
The pressbook didn't say the 70mm negs are lost, only that the negatives for the uncut version were incomplete, likely having been trimmed or conformed to the shorter version. They were able to cobble together the extant negatives available, and a positive print for reference.

It seems that because of the nature of the restoration, a new 70mm exhibition print was not struck, instead opting for 35mm, which is why the aspect ratio is different.

But this film has been mastered from 70mm materials, which is good news!

Below is the original press statement:

Two versions of War and Peace circulated
in the 1960s: the original 403-minute
cut shown in the USSR and around the
world, and the 360-minute cut ordered
by Continental Distributing’s Walter
Reade for American audiences, the editing
of which director Sergei Bondarchuk
personally supervised. However, in 2000,
when Mosfilm decided to restore War and
Peace, executives there discovered that
neither the studio nor Gosfilmofond, the
Russian Federation’s state film archive,
possessed a complete 70 mm negative of
the film in its original 2.20:1 aspect ratio.
An extensive search in the archives of
the former Soviet republics also failed
to yield a complete 70 mm negative.
The restoration was therefore achieved
by assembling parts of negatives from
various archives, with the complete
positive copy held by Sovexportfilm,
which had distributed War and Peace
abroad, used for reference. Hence, this
35 mm restoration with a 2.35:1 aspect
ratio is the closest possible approximation
of the original film’s visual quality.

gordonovitch
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#110 Post by gordonovitch » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:07 pm

Thanks for correcting my account of the press book's detailing of the restoration; I certainly did have it all wrong.

The NYTimes article is interesting if only, for me, it points out Denise Youngblood's 2014 book on the film, of which I was not aware. I wouldn't be surprised that Janus/Criterion sourced her book for data in the press book and that she may have contributed an essay in Criterion's upcoming release.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#111 Post by FrauBlucher » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:04 pm


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criterionoop
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Re: Forthcoming: War and Peace

#112 Post by criterionoop » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:56 am

Just got out of the screening of all four parts. I’m very certain there were some compression issues at least with Part I (there were weird halos around characters whenever they were moving fast or were in tracking shots). Not sure if this is due to DNR or file size on the DCP.

Also I initially thought the film was leaning toward a teal/blue hue, but that is most likely just because almost every character is wearing gray grease makeup in the film.

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swo17
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#113 Post by swo17 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:03 pm


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domino harvey
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#114 Post by domino harvey » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:06 pm

Wow, I thought for sure they were gonna ask for 80-100 MSRP!

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tenia
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#115 Post by tenia » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:02 pm

That'd have been very surprising for what ends up "just" being a 2-BD set.

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EddieLarkin
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#116 Post by EddieLarkin » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:12 pm

Hopefully poor compression will not be the trade off for the lower price.

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Cold Bishop
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#117 Post by Cold Bishop » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:58 pm

If I recall, with copious use of a double and at the serious expense of his own health.

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swo17
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#118 Post by swo17 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:11 pm

Was that a Jeopardy clue?

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CSM126
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#119 Post by CSM126 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:10 pm

I’m not sure if he’s describing how Bondarchuk made War and Peace or how Jackie Chan made Police Story.

kekid
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#120 Post by kekid » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:06 am

Is "War and Peace" going to be a Criterion release in UK as well?

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MichaelB
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#121 Post by MichaelB » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:15 am

kekid wrote:Is "War and Peace" going to be a Criterion release in UK as well?
Nobody knows outside Criterion.

But there has to be a decent chance given that some of Criterion’s other Mosfilm licenses have had UK releases, and I don’t believe any other UK label currently has War and Peace.

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swo17
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#122 Post by swo17 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:01 am

Is the Artificial Eye release OOP?

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MichaelB
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#123 Post by MichaelB » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:11 am

Came out in 2006, under the old Artificial Eye regime prior to the Curzon takeover, and it's currently only available through Amazon Marketplace sellers, so there's every likelihood that they let the rights lapse. A much more plausible scenario than otherwise, I'd have thought.

And that was only a DVD release, so even if it's still in print it shouldn't impact on the legal viability of a Criterion edition. I've produced loads of BD-only editions of films that were still available on DVD on another label at the time.

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tenia
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#124 Post by tenia » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:59 pm

EddieLarkin wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:12 pm
Hopefully poor compression will not be the trade off for the lower price.
I sure hope too. The movie itself will already roughly represents 3h30 per disc, which means that just this alone (and its 5.1 track, assuming it's 48/24) will not be able to go above a 25 Mbps AVB. I guess the 5 extras will probably amount to at least an hour (say 1h15, ie 15 minutes per extra). Except if they're very compressed (ie 6-7 Mbps and DD 2.0), only having 2 discs is indeed quite tight for so much material.

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MichaelB
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Re: 983 War and Peace

#125 Post by MichaelB » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:03 pm

Bear in mind it's in 2.20:1, so the picture won't fill the entire screen. And that can make a surprising difference to the amount of space needed provided they make sure upfront that the black bars really are pure black (which isn't always true of source masters, surprisingly enough).

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