820 Fantastic Planet

Discuss DVDs and Blu-rays released by Criterion and the films on them. If it's got a spine number, it's in here. Threads may contain spoilers.
Message
Author
User avatar
cdnchris
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#26 Post by cdnchris » Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:17 am

It's an odd presentation. It actually doesn't start out all that bad. The tone is "cooler" which is fine, but yellows still look yellow and skin tones still look pinkish. I always thought the colours looked washed out and faded in every other previous release I've seen (and I certainly wouldn't say any of those previous releases, like any home video release, should be held as reference when it's more a matter of what people got used to) and saturation is certainly better here. But then the blue tone gets far heavier and most of the film is doused in it, the skin tones look more pale/bluish and everything is far colder and darker. It's odd.

Since their notes mention the work was done by Argos and make no mention of "color correction" or anything of the sort it's safe to say this is what they got from them. So anybody hoping for a "fixed" version they are pretty much SOL I'm sure.

User avatar
djproject
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:41 pm
Location: Framingham, MA
Contact:

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#27 Post by djproject » Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:34 pm

Manny Karp wrote:
cdnchris wrote:This is what the notes on the transfer say:
This 2K digital restoration was undertaken from the 35mm original camera negative at Eclair/Groupe Ymagis by Argos Films, with the support of the CNC, under the supervision of Florence Dauman and Fabrice Blin, who got like, totally baked watching this tripped-out flick, dudes, and were convinced the world was greeeeen, man!
We were going to restore this film ... but then we got high.
Last edited by djproject on Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jsteffe
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:00 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#28 Post by jsteffe » Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:25 pm

I have the 2012 Masters of Cinema Blu-ray, and the color is certainly better than the faded DVDs. If you look at the DVD Beaver caps for the older DVDs, the Draags do not have sufficiently blue skin, and the Masters of Cinema Blu corrected that. But it also lacks the heavy blue tint that others have noted with the new 2k restoration on the Criterion edition. I'll stick with the MoC.

[Corrected: 2k instead of 4k]
Last edited by jsteffe on Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

peerpee
not perpee
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 pm

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#29 Post by peerpee » Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:59 pm

cdnchris wrote:This is what the notes on the transfer say:
This 2K digital restoration was undertaken from the 35mm original camera negative at Eclair/Groupe Ymagis by Argos Films, with the support of the CNC, under the supervision of Florence Dauman and Fabrice Blin.

I visited Argos Films in Paris in 2009 and looked at their new 2K digital restoration of FANTASTIC PLANET. This is what MoC licensed from Argos and released on Blu. So, either they've done another one (why would they do another 2K?) or someone's had a play with the colours somewhere along the line.

Calvin
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:12 am

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#30 Post by Calvin » Sat Jun 04, 2016 5:10 pm

peerpee wrote:
cdnchris wrote:This is what the notes on the transfer say:
This 2K digital restoration was undertaken from the 35mm original camera negative at Eclair/Groupe Ymagis by Argos Films, with the support of the CNC, under the supervision of Florence Dauman and Fabrice Blin.

I visited Argos Films in Paris in 2009 and looked at their new 2K digital restoration of FANTASTIC PLANET. This is what MoC licensed from Argos and released on Blu. So, either they've done another one (why would they do another 2K?) or someone's had a play with the colours somewhere along the line.

The CNC funded a restoration in July of last year

User avatar
cdnchris
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#31 Post by cdnchris » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:29 pm

Since the booklet mentions the "support" of the CNC I'm assuming that's the one they used then.

User avatar
mfunk9786
Under Chris' Protection
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:43 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#32 Post by mfunk9786 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:33 pm

Discussion of everyone's favorite pro bassoonist has been moved to the appropriate thread

User avatar
domino harvey
Dot Com Dom
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#33 Post by domino harvey » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:33 pm

Thanks

Dom-H

ambrose1am
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#34 Post by ambrose1am » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:44 pm

This is the kind of release that used to make people on this board apoplectic. LOL. Does anyone have info on the restored print aside from Criterion's info and some random poster on a forum page? Is the blue tint present? Which color tint is correct for this film? The Criterion is so blue, but I can see why that makes sense given the themes of the film. I have the MOC Blu and am wondering if I should double dip.

Orlac
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:29 am

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#35 Post by Orlac » Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:46 am

Twilight Time's BFF sticks his oar in - http://www.hometheaterforum.com/communi ... et.348477/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

An

#36 Post by tenia » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:30 am

Orlac wrote:Twilight Time's BFF sticks his oar in - http://www.hometheaterforum.com/communi ... et.348477/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Straight from his 2nd post : "I will not look at those caps because they do not resemble the movie I watched."
You can disagree with people's impressions over the new color timing, since it very much is a personal impression : it feels correct or doesn't, but we viewers don't have any factual reference to state what is correct and what's not.

But screen captures, providing they’re properly taken, can perfectly allow to assess a color timing as well as other things (compression for instance). If these caps don’t resemble the movie he watched, either they haven’t been properly captured (some of them are straight from blu-ray.com, it would be surprising for them not to be properly taken), or the guy hasn’t properly watched the movie.

The third option is that he has made up definitely his mind and whatever factual but contradictory element brought to him will only be discarded because it doesn’t fit his rational. Which is merely human nature, mind you, but at least, he could be a bit more subtle about it.

He also originally states that the restoration was done in Italy, which is wrong.


Anyway, there's a stance against screen captures I don't understand. Sure, you don't get the psychovisual effects on your brain because it's motionless in opposition of watching a "motion picture", but still : a movie remains litterally 24 (usually) still frames per second. Of course, they need to be taken properly (which is the main culprit here, most of the time) but it's a bit easy to rebuff any screen capture by saying "oh but it's not reliable !".
And even if you're not watching them on a calibrated monitor, take a software like Paint Shop Pro and it will give you RGB values nonetheless.

User avatar
cdnchris
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#37 Post by cdnchris » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:22 pm

Not sure why I feel the need to do this but just want to clarify one thing:

The one user mentions how I refer to "inconsistencies" throughout and keeps mentioning the two council scenes and how they differ, and I'm not sure if they think I'm referring to this or took this into account. I actually never noticed this as the scenes are far apart. If they were one right after the other I probably would have noticed (doing a check and jumping between the two directly, yeah, the one is darker I would say) but as they are it's possible they were graded differently for tone of the scene (another user points this out). What I meant is the level of coolness (blue) varied from scene to scene, getting heavier in some, toned down in others, but there was always a cooler look to the film, far more than what I was used to, which did throw me off, a lot actually. Otherwise it's a good looking transfer, very smooth and filmic and ultimately I do like it. Not sure if I stressed that enough.
The third option is that he has made up definitely his mind and whatever factual but contradictory element brought to him will only be discarded because it doesn’t fit his rational. Which is merely human nature, mind you, but at least, he could be a bit more subtle about it.
I would go with this. I understand where he's coming from because it was completely blown out or proportion by people who hadn't seen the disc, and I again may have inadvertently fed into this. But he seems to be just coming in from the other side way too hard, probably in an unconscious attempt to level things out. He had the advantage of having all of this prior knowledge, too, before seeing it, so he was pretty much prepared to blow it off and look at it a certain way. I had avoided Beaver and other reviews before looking at it, and even though I caught wind of the colours I was still taken aback by the difference. What's annoying personally is the fact he actually blows both Svet and I off completely (as well as every other review on the disc that mentions the difference), even though we both actually gave very favourable reviews (again, the transfer is excellent), we just happened to mention it leans more blue, which it does.

_shadow_
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:48 am

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#38 Post by _shadow_ » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:37 am

I'm suprised the thread hasn't been updated to note that Camera Obscura released a BD with correct color. The scale of difference varies between shots but the range of tonalities is consistently far superior to the Criterion. In addition, there is less cropping and finer grain, so overall a clear improvement. It's relatively rare to have an HD release that corrects a prior jaundiced "restoration" - maybe that will be the next trend in upgrades once we get past 4K remasters.

User avatar
Cronenfly
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:04 pm

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#39 Post by Cronenfly » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:42 pm

How does the MoC stack up? I’d rather go with an entirely English friendly version if possible.

User avatar
tenia
Ask Me About My Bassoon
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#40 Post by tenia » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:34 am

Possibly more faithful colors, older transfer.

RIP Film
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:53 pm

Re: 820 Fantastic Planet

#41 Post by RIP Film » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:48 am

Camera Obscura left a lengthy post on the bluray forums that adds some context.

“Hi,

we're happy about your interest in our release and would like to answer some questions.

First off, we tried to acquire English options but sadly it just wasn't possible, which we completely understand. This might as well happen to other releases we are planning in the future, so be warned...

Regarding the color grading: We asked the lab for the 2K version of their restoration as no other/better elements were available. We knew we wanted to provide a different color correction for a simple reason: the lab that did the restoration has a track record of tealing basically every restoration they do to varying degress, and FANTASTIC PLANET is no exception. You can see this for example in our bonus feature "Topors Träume" where Topor watches a theatrical screening of the film and there is no trace of teal to be found. Also, if you followed the discussion in this forum, you will find several other evidences produced by users that indicate how the film originally looked. Plus, there is the Eureka version that, according to the producers, was struck from an interpositive (or internegative -- I can't remember which right now). Anyway, we wanted to give the fans a choice while not disregarding the work of the lab and the people involved from the producer's/licensor's side, and hence opted to include both versions. So I painstakingly (and this is not just a matter of speech...) color corrected the tealed version to what we have now.
As for the framing: This is the unchanged framing of the 2K master as provided by the lab. We inquired about the different framing and and production company Argos Films' Florence Dauman confirmed that it's legit. We really hoped they would say so because it obviously doesn't crop picture information (like people on the sides of the frame, and so on), keeps objects that should be centered in the center and looks overall more balanced -- at least to our eyes. One or a few instances of print damage surely wasn't the reason for cropping an entire film. If we would have spotted this instance of damage, we would have removed it as we have done on several other spots especially during the credits sequence which still presented many instanced of dust speckles that are now gone. Sorry for not seeing it!

So this is more or less the whole story. It's something I hope I'll never have to do again, but FANTASTIC PLANET is one of my favorite movies and it just had to be done (at least for our own sake). We wanted to give it the ultimate release and make as many fans happy as we possibly can. Some people actually like the somewhat otherworldly look (if you can say so in case of FANTASTIC PLANET...) of the tealed version, which is fine with us and which we didn't want to take away from them. The way we see it, it's always nice to have a choice when it comes to things as controversial as this topic.”

Post Reply