1185 After Hours

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Rupert Pupkin
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#26 Post by Rupert Pupkin » Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:56 pm

cdnchris wrote:
Sun Jul 23, 2023 6:52 pm
Yes, all of July's titles are missing the feature, except the standard Blu-ray on Breathless (because it's the old disc). They said they will no longer be adding the feature to new releases.
Ok thanks; that sucks. This was right from the start of their first Blu-Ray and was way more intuitive than the bookmarks on other Blu-Ray (Universal or Sony); means that they have really thought about this cohesive "interface" of pop-up menus, etc... and I was so attached to it. In comparison Arrow has even no pop-up menus when you start the movie. and it was a great tool to go to some scenes after having watched the movie and listen to some excerpts of the audio commentaries.
I have Breathless combo UHD/BR but I knew they kept this because it use the "old" blu-ray transfer.

Sad that it ends with Thelma & Louise and the last batches of Criterion and they did not bother to keep it for After Hours (because this release is really gorgeous); I would have liked to see the audition footage of Linda Fiorentino has described in the documentary and audio commentaries.
Thinking that I won't be able to bookmark Nicole Kidman in porte-jarretelles in "The Others" just makes me feel... sad ](*,)

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swo17
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#27 Post by swo17 » Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:41 pm

In Nina Menkes' Brainwashed, Rosanna Arquette says she regrets how she let herself be filmed for this

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#28 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:26 pm

swo17 wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:41 pm
In Nina Menkes' Brainwashed, Rosanna Arquette says she regrets how she let herself be filmed for this
In what way?

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swo17
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#29 Post by swo17 » Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:30 pm

She specifically cites a certain scene where the camera slowly pans down her body

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Re: 1185 After Hours

#30 Post by pistolwink » Thu Jul 27, 2023 6:28 pm

I can completely understand that. I'd note that it's a sequence that (even more than the rest of the film) seems designed to make the audience uncomfortable and make the protagonist seem like a creep ... uncomfortable, perhaps, because the shot seems to encourage complicity with his creepiness. The shot "objectifies" her character in a disturbingly literal way.

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Murdoch
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#31 Post by Murdoch » Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:10 am

I remember being uneasy about that scene as well.
SpoilerShow
It doesn't help that Arquette is dead in the scene and Dunne pulls the covers off her mostly naked corpse

Dunne's priority also becomes getting his keys and going home after finding out Arquette is dead and he won't be getting laid, rather than waiting for EMTs to come for the body.
I still enjoy the movie a lot though, and don't think Scorsese intended Dunne to be particularly likeable in it (aimless yuppie isn't exactly Scorsese's favorite character type). I think Kael's critique of the film is very on-point (i.e. how the women in the film are all flaky and threatening) but I just haven't seen a better version of this kind of one crazy night/nothing goes right film. I love how Dunne's mishaps crescendo. Not every joke lands and Dunne and Arquette have no chemistry (which I think is what Scorsese was going for), but the little moments scattered throughout - the taxi ride, the subway scene, the sudden shooting - all make this something I love returning to.

It's fun to analyze in the MeToo/post-MeToo era. I feel like each person he encounters is a caricature viewed through the lens of Dunne's anxiety and sexual frustration. He has a certain entitlement to him, especially in the scenes with Arquette where he becomes increasingly irritable that she's not putting out (which he tries to hide by pretending to be fine with not being physical when she shows discomfort).
SpoilerShow
Then when she dies he unceremoniously ditches her after eyeing her dead body. So I feel like the film is critical of Dunne's intentions and that male gaze shot is Scorsese directly saying, "No, this guy wanted one thing and now that he's not getting it, he's leaving her to rot."

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#32 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:06 am

Dunne's "normalcy" is a smokescreen though. He's an identity-less yuppie who's too afraid to break from his social norms, safe job and all that, but also can't stand his milieu and catalogue-superficial lifestyle he's crafted for himself. The women may be socially inappropriate and abnormal to an extent, but so are most of the men (i.e. Cheech and Chong as mild-mannered thieves, the men in the apartment complex who accost him repeatedly, Will Patton's Horst..) and we only get to spent more time with the women stressing their eccentricities because Dunne is compulsively drawn to them at first, and then ironically they begin to chase him when he's had 'enough'. I think the women are threatening to Dunne not just because he doesn't belong in this world, but because he goes in with expectations that cannot be met outside of a fantasy. People are weird, and he wants to break from the banalities of his ordinary existence to experience his weird side, but cannot access it (I'd say it 'doesn't exist' but I think it does, just not in the way he can conceive... when he is made to feel uncomfortable, there's a clumsiness in his response, but he is embarrassed by this - even if it's an opportunity to lean in to discover what makes him "weird").

I think this is the frustrating aspect at the center of the film... the castration iconography, emasculating encounters, etc. can obviously be read as a man ill-fitted to engage with his world in a safe way because the world is crazy, but there's a darker satire going on: That Dunne makes himself impotent by working in friction with who he is: a fatalistically boring, high-strung, skirt/experience-chasing Bro, whose only strategies are derivative come-ons he's picked up from movies, books, or observing his peers. He's not a natural 'participant', but a follower. This feels like his first outing, and he sucks at it. We can look at the frustrating discomfort of Arquette's flakiness and confrontational labile mood, but she comes across to me as a more "real" character than Dunne: a woman who's been around and has a protective part coming out to size him up (and fairly so!) and oscillating between trusting herself to let loose or retreat into safety. It's a pretty normal response on first dates, actually, and feels honest, but it's obviously frustrating to Dunne who has very simple, selfish, and directive motives - where her complex hangups don't fit in. Or take O'Hara's teasing provocations, which are inappropriate given Dunne's predicament that we're cued in on as surrogates... but she's not really, and it's also a case where a kooky woman is poking fun at the stuck-up fish-out-of-water who's always at the winning end of a power differential. Not to be mean, but as an offering to join, and maybe shed that self-serious shtick and get "weird"... you know, like he wanted to do. She knows getting home isn't life or death. Two lonely souls on a late night standing around looking down at their feet sounds boring - she's spicing it up. Awkwardly, but she's 'living'. And Garr's waitress, who presents with anxious attachment and unrealistic expectations of her own... well, they mirror his of Arquette, so the irony is thrown back at him, only then it's unacceptable.

These are all just people who are wrestling with who they are, what they want or expect, and how to fit that into a social experience, and everyone's coming up empty - and then reacting emotionally to it. Strongly, yes, as lonely vulnerable people do. And the only reason any of them are able to band together is because they can locate a scapegoat to project their rejected emotions onto. If they were in a different part of town at a different hour with a different demographic, it'd be Dunne and his office mates parading the streets looking for one of these late-night blue collar ladies or artsy outcasts. Except they'd be too scared or oblivious to venture from their own narcissistic fantasies to even 'feel' an emotion that strong. Dunne loses his cool because he's probably never been this emotional, though he thought he wanted to be. The real tragedy of the film is that Dunne sets out to achieve exactly what he gets, only not in the way he expected, and it's not cathartic. These abnormal people are the "normal" people of the world, and he has no way to escape the prison he's built for himself. He needs to feel, but he can't cope with what it actually looks like to feel; he needs to connect, but he is not prepared or willing to engage socially on intimate terms that aren't his. And yet while Scorsese knows this is a tragedy, he doesn't apologize for his behavior or ask us to sympathize with his character. Because regardless of that intolerable, confining experience, his behavior sucks. But we can broadly relate to not being able to connect despite what feels like giving all our effort, to having insatiable or unrealistic expectations, to being rejected, of being lonely, socially confused, misinterpreted, unwilling to risk what we need to in order to vulnerably get our needs met yet still being stuck with those unfulfilled needs, and getting angry with ourselves about that conflict and projecting it outward in some form. And Scorsese does leave an opening for us to empathize with that, even if we're doing so for ourselves and the millions of people populating the background of this film, elided from it, or watching at home.

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Murdoch
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#33 Post by Murdoch » Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:31 pm

Great write-up, twbb. I think the film works as well as it does because of the dynamics you mention between the characters. Each encounter feels real, for lack of a better word. The pauses in the conversation between Arquette and Dunne, the shift in Arquette from giddy to guarded, they all feel like two people trying to figure out how to act around the other and coming in with very different mindsets.

And I think you hit the nail on the head of why I like the film so much. It's its representation of clashing expectations. Dunne's experience is an exaggerated version of that heightened excitement of a "night out," where the parameters of that night are ill-defined and there's just a general anticipation about something new and memorable that might happen. But then the night happens, and his expectations he's built up go against the reality and he's left just wanting to go home. While many films add a friend or supporting character to ease the woe of the disappointed lead, here it's just Dunne being thrown from one place to the next with no time to breathe.

It's a very human film that captures how expectations and desires clash, and it feels like the rare film that doesn't force a neat resolution when that happens. Dunne leaves each encounter more frustrated than the last, whoever he met feeling worse off as well. When he finds someone who's actually up for a connection (i.e. Garr), he's too exasperated by his night to remember why he came out to begin with.

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Rayon Vert
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#34 Post by Rayon Vert » Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:57 pm

Murdoch wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:31 pm
Dunne's experience is an exaggerated version of that heightened excitement of a "night out," where the parameters of that night are ill-defined and there's just a general anticipation about something new and memorable that might happen. But then the night happens, and his expectations he's built up go against the reality and he's left just wanting to go home. (...) Dunne leaves each encounter more frustrated than the last, whoever he met feeling worse off as well. When he finds someone who's actually up for a connection (i.e. Garr), he's too exasperated by his night to remember why he came out to begin with.
And who among us can't relate to having experienced a "night out" like that!

Or maybe we could even stretch that out to a metaphor for an entire life...

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#35 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:49 pm

Murdoch wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:31 pm
Dunne leaves each encounter more frustrated than the last, whoever he met feeling worse off as well. When he finds someone who's actually up for a connection (i.e. Garr), he's too exasperated by his night to remember why he came out to begin with.
Well put, though in addition to being exacerbated by this point in the night, I think it’s that dissonance between Dunne’s expectations/'ideas' of what he wants, and what he’s actually equipped to deal with in reality, that yields his response. Remember that Dunne was well-aware of Arquette’s skin condition from early on, and yet he keeps chasing her -oscillating between full-on commitment and anxious trepidation and investigation- right up until she’s shed her own insecurities to become fully ready and the spotlight is on him to perform (or decide to do what he's deceptively - to both himself and others - posed as actualized towards all along). It’s only then that he fearfully rejects her - it seems to come out of nowhere, but his anxiety has been bubbling all along under the superficial guise of 'a dude looking to score'. I don’t think he was ever prepared to follow through on sex presented, and would’ve found an excuse to tap out however he could once it became his turn to stop chasing and start living. This internal discord between wants and skills frustrates him, so like many guys who aren’t in touch with his emotions and unwilling to own his insecurities, he projects this turmoil onto her with a false, deluded sense of justified anger.

He does the same with Garr, but at this point he’s more comfortable being disrespectful and retreating into self. He’s broken the seal, so to speak. I think he’s attracted to her initially too, but the turn-offs are more pronounced (read: he has less tolerance for the inherent agitation in navigating competing wills in a social exchange) and yet he can't stop being "polite" (read: telling her he'll come back, actually coming back and following through like a "gentleman"), so this amplified friction creates a more hostile and impulsive reactivity. Dunne is more bound to his social niceties of ego functions than his id impulses, and his mismanaged self-preservation also causes implosion. It's a really interesting depiction of the consequences of psychosocial disarray, fatally isolated to self-induced cuckolding through the irreversible conditioning of fear-based systems of social order.

Murdoch, have you seen Landis' Into the Night? I contrasted it with the Scorsese a few years ago here, but in short, I had completely misremembered how dark its tone is and where (and how far) the themes actually lead. It takes us to a very different but no less impactful place, with admirably full measures in commitment to its observations of interest. They'd make a fascinating double bill, and I bet you could teach a class on existentialism in film based solely on how their distinctions inform the other.

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Re: 1185 After Hours

#36 Post by pistolwink » Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:12 pm

//

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Murdoch
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#37 Post by Murdoch » Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:00 pm

therewillbeblus wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:49 pm
Murdoch, have you seen Landis' Into the Night? I contrasted it with the Scorsese a few years ago here, but in short, I had completely misremembered how dark its tone is and where (and how far) the themes actually lead. It takes us to a very different but no less impactful place, with admirably full measures in commitment to its observations of interest. They'd make a fascinating double bill, and I bet you could teach a class on existentialism in film based solely on how their distinctions inform the other.
I have not but your write-up makes me very interested to watch it! And the who's-who casting has me intrigued (David Bowie! Jim Henson! Amy Heckerling! David Cronenberg! Jonathan Demme! And more!)

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Gregory
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Re: 1185 After Hours

#38 Post by Gregory » Wed Aug 30, 2023 12:46 pm


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Re: 1185 After Hours

#39 Post by denti alligator » Sat Dec 23, 2023 7:55 pm

dwk wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2023 1:30 pm
beamish14 wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2023 1:09 pm
No involvement from writer Joseph Minion whatsoever, which doesn’t surprise me in the least. I’m sure Scorsese can’t speak publicly about the film’s lawsuit from Joe Frank. It’s truly unbelievable how much Minion lifted from Frank’s Lies
Piggybacking on the last few posts in the Kino Studio Classics thread, this is a special features topic that the studio would 100% veto right away.
Scorsese does mention the Frank script in the interview with Liebowitz, if I remember correctly.

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